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Book:The Colour of Magic/Annotations

2019-08-06T19:24:32Z

Chrisboote: /* The Colour of Magic Annotations */

== [[Book:The Colour of Magic|The Colour of Magic]] Annotations ==

'''''Prefatory Note:-''''' It should be remarked here that since publication of {{COM}} and {{TLF}}, both books have been conflated into a TV movie which is reviewed and commented on elsewhere in this Wiki. The TV adaptation introduces new characters and details which were not part of the original book: for instance, those heads of the Eight Orders of Wizardry who are not mentioned in the books are given names. As a general principle, if you have an annotation to quote which is based on the TV version and not on the book, do feel free to summarise it here, but do be sure to reference it as part of the TV adaptation and not the book. Thank you.

* A general thought on Rincewind: sci-fi authors Margaret Hickman and Tracey Weiss, in their '''''Darksword''''' trilogy, came up with the idea of a parallel Earth which is governed by magic, where technology is either basic or non-existent. Everyone on this planet has some sort of innate magical ability, apart from a few unfortunate mutants who are regarded as "Dead" because they can use no magic at all and have no magical sensibility. The Dead are normally killed at birth as a kindness to them, and to prevent their passing their taint on to children. But every so often, one slips through the net and has to live a life of subterfuge and concealment in order to fit in. They are naturally drawn to science and technology as if to compensate for their lack of magic. One such, Jorum, becomes first the possible destruction of his world - he slips through the dimensions to our planet Earth and allows Earth to invade the magical world. Then Jorum becomes its salvation. While Rincewind has no conscious desire to destroy the Discworld, the rest of the description, as well as the setting, is oddly telling...

* "Death himself turns up to claim him (instead of delegating the task to a subordinate, such as Disease or Famine, as is usually the case)." - this is the only Discworld book to suggest that Famine is subordinate to Death. The non-Discworld [[Good Omens]] also suggests this. Disease may be another name for Pestilence, or perhaps a subordinate for Pestilence?

* "the combined talents of the Faculty of Medicine had been unable to coax it." - indicates that Unseen University has a medical department, which seems unusual, since {{P}} tells us that "medicine was a new art on the Disc". Of course, given the time mangling in {{TOT}}, maybe {{P}} comes before {{COM}}? Or perhaps the Faculty of Medicine specialize in curing ''magical'' diseases, such as [[Planets]].

* "Turning To Animals is an Eighth Level spell" - a reference to {{wp|Dungeons_and_Dragons|Dungeons & Dragons}}

* "I WAS EXPECTING TO MEET THEE IN PSEUDOPOLIS [...] I COULD LEND YOU A VERY FAST HORSE." - a reference to the short story {{wp|Appointment_in_Samarra|Appointment in Samarra}}, which is itself a retelling of an ancient Jewish tale from the Talmud.

* People walk through Death in this book; in {{M}}, they walk around him.

* "dispatched to the islands by the Minor Religions faculty of Unseen University" - an indication that the university dabbles in religious study at this point. I wonder how the priests feel about that?

* "stable magic aura of at least [...] several milliPrime" - here, magical aura (not an amount of magic) is measured in prime, indicating that [[prime]] is a unit of field strength, not a unit of magic.

* "His sister had told him they didn't really exist" - this is the only time we hear about Twoflower's sister. She's not even mentioned in {{IT}}.

*The Brown Islands are mentioned in this book as well as others, The joke here I think is Brown eye is slang for the "Anus", the exit hole so the brown islands become the 'Brown eye lands' Not a place to go shoeless.

* "Dr Rjinswand, 33, a bachelor" - one of the few indications that Rincewind is fairly young, despite [[Josh Kirby]]'s tendency to draw him as ancient (assuming Rjinswand is a fairly close parallel to Rincewind). Although people forget that in the book the author describes a 'years' length. Which is twice what our year is, ours being 365 days and a Discworld being 800. However, it is stated that most people use the agricultural year for age purposes.

* "Vul nut wine was reputed to give certain drinkers an insight into the future which was, from the nut's point of view, the past. Strange but true.". Interestingly, Twoflower doesn't seem to be able to see into the future after drinking this wine (perhaps because he lives entirely within his own head?) Or perhaps "certain" drinkers doesn't happen to include Twoflower, who's far from psychically-inclined.

* "'You know that I never even made it to Neophyte,' said Rincewind". Apparently, "neophyte" is another name of "level 1 wizard"? (Explanatory: the revived systems of occult magick and wizardry that appeared in the later 19th Century created a rigid formal hierarchy among the new Wizards. In the Golden Dawn and the O.T.O. systems, the lowest, least and most despised rank was indeed the '''''neophyte'''''. Slightly higher up the chain were ''zelators''. Lovers of conspiracy theory should go and discover the sign to be exchanged by which one Zelator should recognise another....)

*The Octavo is kept in a room of absolute silence that no can withstand for more than four minutes thirty two seconds. So 4'33" of complete silence will kill you ... c.f. John Cage, 4'33"

*Rincewind talks about a spell making beautiful virgins appear in your room, and also takes many pictures of the Seamstresses, contradicting later comments about wizards and sex. But then, Rincewind isn't much of a wizard and given that the first time we meet him he's sitting in the most disreputable pub in Ankh-Morpork, it's probably safe to assume he treats the whole wizardly aversion to sex (or, at least, the pursuit of it) with a pinch of salt.

*In "The Colour Of Magic", Death or a subordinate evidently do have to make a personal appearance at a death, as he sends [[Scrofula]] to kill Rincewind. But then this could just be because Rincewind is, sort-of-kind-of-technically-more-or-less a wiz(z)ard. A similar scene occurs in the BBC Radio comedy ''The Burkiss Way''.

*Although in [[Book:Guards! Guards!|Guards! Guards!]] Carrot's sword is remarkable because it is one of the only known non-magic swords on the Disc, Rincewind comments that magic swords are expensive in ''The Colour of Magic''. Possibly ''all'' swords are expensive.

* The [[Great Nef]] Desert (mentioned) with its negative humidity and its [[Dehydrated Ocean]], plus the strange ships that sail on it. This has got to be a parody of the deserts of '''''Dune'''''. All it needs now are sandworms. Or dehydrated water worms.

* We have a continuity problem, I fear. The article on reannual plants says:-

''"the Rehigreed Province in the Agatean Empire is another. The reannual Vul Nuts are mentioned in The Colour of Magic as being grown in the latter place, and when harvested they make a drink called Ghlen Livid....."''

Ref. {{COM}}, Corgi PB, p189. Twoflower is sampling the hospitality on offer in Krull to those who are about to be sacrificed.

''"Ghlen Livid" he said. "The fermented vul-nut drink they freeze-distil in my home country....''
''"from the western plantations in, ah, Rehigreed Province, yes?"''

The clear implication from Twoflower's words are that Rehigreed Province is a part of "my home country", ie the Agatean Empire. Otherwise, he might have said it was imported?

The problem is, {{DM}} places the Rehigreed Province in the opposite corner of the Discworld from Agatea - the two could not be further apart if you tried. Either the Rehigreed is a "lost colony" on the Central Continent originally settled by Agateans, or else in between {{COM}} and {{DM}} this fine detail was lost. --[[User:AgProv|AgProv]] 20:37, 14 November 2010 (CET)

Or it could be that, (My personal theory), that Agatea sources the nuts from Rehigreed, but does not own it. Twoflower only said they ferment and distill it in Agatea, and the fact that Rehigreed is sending the nuts all away around the world mirrors Roundworld China's fame of importing and exporting. Also, he drinks the wine in Krull, which has little affiliation with Agatea, and probably got the nuts from Rehigreed directly (By run ashore vessel)--[[User:TNTiger]] 10:48, 8 October 2017 (GMT)

[http://www.lspace.org/books/apf/the-colour-of-magic.html ''The Colour of Magic'' Annotations - The Annotated Pratchett File]

[[Category:Annotations|Colour of Magic,The ]]

Book:The Colour of Magic/Annotations

2019-08-06T19:24:02Z

Chrisboote: Added annotation

== [[Book:The Colour of Magic|The Colour of Magic]] Annotations ==

'''''Prefatory Note:-''''' It should be remarked here that since publication of {{COM}} and {{TLF}}, both books have been conflated into a TV movie which is reviewed and commented on elsewhere in this Wiki. The TV adaptation introduces new characters and details which were not part of the original book: for instance, those heads of the Eight Orders of Wizardry who are not mentioned in the books are given names. As a general principle, if you have an annotation to quote which is based on the TV version and not on the book, do feel free to summarise it here, but do be sure to reference it as part of the TV adaptation and not the book. Thank you.

* A general thought on Rincewind: sci-fi authors Margaret Hickman and Tracey Weiss, in their '''''Darksword''''' trilogy, came up with the idea of a parallel Earth which is governed by magic, where technology is either basic or non-existent. Everyone on this planet has some sort of innate magical ability, apart from a few unfortunate mutants who are regarded as "Dead" because they can use no magic at all and have no magical sensibility. The Dead are normally killed at birth as a kindness to them, and to prevent their passing their taint on to children. But every so often, one slips through the net and has to live a life of subterfuge and concealment in order to fit in. They are naturally drawn to science and technology as if to compensate for their lack of magic. One such, Jorum, becomes first the possible destruction of his world - he slips through the dimensions to our planet Earth and allows Earth to invade the magical world. Then Jorum becomes its salvation. While Rincewind has no conscious desire to destroy the Discworld, the rest of the description, as well as the setting, is oddly telling...

* "Death himself turns up to claim him (instead of delegating the task to a subordinate, such as Disease or Famine, as is usually the case)." - this is the only Discworld book to suggest that Famine is subordinate to Death. The non-Discworld [[Good Omens]] also suggests this. Disease may be another name for Pestilence, or perhaps a subordinate for Pestilence?

* "the combined talents of the Faculty of Medicine had been unable to coax it." - indicates that Unseen University has a medical department, which seems unusual, since {{P}} tells us that "medicine was a new art on the Disc". Of course, given the time mangling in {{TOT}}, maybe {{P}} comes before {{COM}}? Or perhaps the Faculty of Medicine specialize in curing ''magical'' diseases, such as [[Planets]].

* "Turning To Animals is an Eighth Level spell" - a reference to {{wp|Dungeons_and_Dragons|Dungeons & Dragons}}

* "I WAS EXPECTING TO MEET THEE IN PSEUDOPOLIS [...] I COULD LEND YOU A VERY FAST HORSE." - a reference to the short story {{wp|Appointment_in_Samarra|Appointment in Samarra}}, which is itself a retelling of an ancient Jewish tale from the Talmud.

* People walk through Death in this book; in {{M}}, they walk around him.

* "dispatched to the islands by the Minor Religions faculty of Unseen University" - an indication that the university dabbles in religious study at this point. I wonder how the priests feel about that?

* "stable magic aura of at least [...] several milliPrime" - here, magical aura (not an amount of magic) is measured in prime, indicating that [[prime]] is a unit of field strength, not a unit of magic.

* "His sister had told him they didn't really exist" - this is the only time we hear about Twoflower's sister. She's not even mentioned in {{IT}}.

*The Brown Islands are mentioned in this book as well as others, The joke here I think is Brown eye is slang for the "Anus", the exit hole so the brown islands become the 'Brown eye lands' Not a place to go shoeless.

* "Dr Rjinswand, 33, a bachelor" - one of the few indications that Rincewind is fairly young, despite [[Josh Kirby]]'s tendency to draw him as ancient (assuming Rjinswand is a fairly close parallel to Rincewind). Although people forget that in the book the author describes a 'years' length. Which is twice what our year is, ours being 365 days and a Discworld being 800. However, it is stated that most people use the agricultural year for age purposes.

* "Vul nut wine was reputed to give certain drinkers an insight into the future which was, from the nut's point of view, the past. Strange but true.". Interestingly, Twoflower doesn't seem to be able to see into the future after drinking this wine (perhaps because he lives entirely within his own head?) Or perhaps "certain" drinkers doesn't happen to include Twoflower, who's far from psychically-inclined.

* "'You know that I never even made it to Neophyte,' said Rincewind". Apparently, "neophyte" is another name of "level 1 wizard"? (Explanatory: the revived systems of occult magick and wizardry that appeared in the later 19th Century created a rigid formal hierarchy among the new Wizards. In the Golden Dawn and the O.T.O. systems, the lowest, least and most despised rank was indeed the '''''neophyte'''''. Slightly higher up the chain were ''zelators''. Lovers of conspiracy theory should go and discover the sign to be exchanged by which one Zelator should recognise another....)

*The Octavo is kept in a room of absolute silence that no can withstand for more than four minutes thirty two seconds
so 4'33" of complete silence will kill you ... c.f. John Cage, 4'33"

*Rincewind talks about a spell making beautiful virgins appear in your room, and also takes many pictures of the Seamstresses, contradicting later comments about wizards and sex. But then, Rincewind isn't much of a wizard and given that the first time we meet him he's sitting in the most disreputable pub in Ankh-Morpork, it's probably safe to assume he treats the whole wizardly aversion to sex (or, at least, the pursuit of it) with a pinch of salt.

*In "The Colour Of Magic", Death or a subordinate evidently do have to make a personal appearance at a death, as he sends [[Scrofula]] to kill Rincewind. But then this could just be because Rincewind is, sort-of-kind-of-technically-more-or-less a wiz(z)ard. A similar scene occurs in the BBC Radio comedy ''The Burkiss Way''.

*Although in [[Book:Guards! Guards!|Guards! Guards!]] Carrot's sword is remarkable because it is one of the only known non-magic swords on the Disc, Rincewind comments that magic swords are expensive in ''The Colour of Magic''. Possibly ''all'' swords are expensive.

* The [[Great Nef]] Desert (mentioned) with its negative humidity and its [[Dehydrated Ocean]], plus the strange ships that sail on it. This has got to be a parody of the deserts of '''''Dune'''''. All it needs now are sandworms. Or dehydrated water worms.

* We have a continuity problem, I fear. The article on reannual plants says:-

''"the Rehigreed Province in the Agatean Empire is another. The reannual Vul Nuts are mentioned in The Colour of Magic as being grown in the latter place, and when harvested they make a drink called Ghlen Livid....."''

Ref. {{COM}}, Corgi PB, p189. Twoflower is sampling the hospitality on offer in Krull to those who are about to be sacrificed.

''"Ghlen Livid" he said. "The fermented vul-nut drink they freeze-distil in my home country....''
''"from the western plantations in, ah, Rehigreed Province, yes?"''

The clear implication from Twoflower's words are that Rehigreed Province is a part of "my home country", ie the Agatean Empire. Otherwise, he might have said it was imported?

The problem is, {{DM}} places the Rehigreed Province in the opposite corner of the Discworld from Agatea - the two could not be further apart if you tried. Either the Rehigreed is a "lost colony" on the Central Continent originally settled by Agateans, or else in between {{COM}} and {{DM}} this fine detail was lost. --[[User:AgProv|AgProv]] 20:37, 14 November 2010 (CET)

Or it could be that, (My personal theory), that Agatea sources the nuts from Rehigreed, but does not own it. Twoflower only said they ferment and distill it in Agatea, and the fact that Rehigreed is sending the nuts all away around the world mirrors Roundworld China's fame of importing and exporting. Also, he drinks the wine in Krull, which has little affiliation with Agatea, and probably got the nuts from Rehigreed directly (By run ashore vessel)--[[User:TNTiger]] 10:48, 8 October 2017 (GMT)

[http://www.lspace.org/books/apf/the-colour-of-magic.html ''The Colour of Magic'' Annotations - The Annotated Pratchett File]

[[Category:Annotations|Colour of Magic,The ]]

Talk:Book:I Shall Wear Midnight

2009-12-17T08:39:27Z

Chrisboote:

This seems to be pure speculation. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] 21:44, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
:Not even a little bit of speculation
:Terry has told us several times of the title, some plot outlines and the fact that this will be the last Tiffany Aching book
:[[User:Chrisboote|Chrisboote]] 08:39, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

Talk:Famine (Good Omens)

2009-12-16T12:22:07Z

Chrisboote:

'''Continuity problem:-''' If the last time Famine and War met was at Mafeking (famous siege under starvation conditions in 1900) how come they missed each other at Stalingrad in 1942, or in the Japanese death camps? Especially as Plague/Pollution and Death must have been working overtime shifts between 1939 and 1945...--[[User:AgProv|AgProv]] 22:12, 13 February 2008 (CET)
:: Usually, Famine turns up, after war has left - remember, she creates the war, then moves on. He hangs around afterwards [[User:Chrisboote|Chrisboote]] 12:22, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

Talk:Book:Night Watch/Annotations

2009-12-09T16:00:03Z

Chrisboote: /* Dr Lawn */

The Baker Street Irregulars have been mentioned before, but no one ever explains what the connection is between a group of street urchins working for the good guys and an evil crew of secret policemen working for the villain. They could be compared to the Canting Crew, maybe, but I don't see why the Unmentionables. (The Bow Street Runners would be more credible.) --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] 17:26, 23 June 2007 (CEST)

10 year old [[Nobby Nobbs]], now, is exactly a Baker Street Irregular. ...--[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] 02:51, 24 June 2007 (CEST)

[[User:Hapenny|Hapenny]] now says it's a definite reference, but fails to say why, or who told her.
I remain totally unconvinced. ...--[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] 17:45, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Come on, Dickens. [Name] Street [Particulars/Irregulars]? I really don't see how you can claim that to be pure coincidence. One could even say that particular (as in precious and pedantic) is a contrast to irregular, but that may be pushing it. Ha'penny is completely convinced. Her jaw drops at the idea that it could be anything else. As a matter of fact, a quick google will show you that the APF backs me up completely (http://www.lspace.org/books/apf/maskerade.html page 247).--[[User:Hapenny|Hapenny]] 18:29, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

I'm probably out-voted again. No one's come up with any relation between the street children and the very Establishment secret police for me yet. Do you mean only that the the form of the name is the same? --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] 20:00, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

I don't think it needs to run deep - when I first came across it in Maskerade, it made me chuckle but I never saw it intended as any meaningful comparison. If I think about it, I can sense various contrasts which could be said to be drawn between Establishment Particulars and urchin Irregulars but I frankly don't think it's worth it.--[[User:Hapenny|Hapenny]] 17:25, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Whereas I would say the only reason to mention it would be as part of a discussion of various substitutions of opposites in {{NW}}, probably including Nobby as an Irregular type who grew into a corrupt policeman - but that's why I don't get involved in annotation; I only mentioned this one because it keeps creeping into the real articles. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] 17:57, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree then. I hope we don't clash over this again, but I feel it's a valid annotation to insert at the bottom of a "real" article, perhaps not on the Watch one but on the Particulars --[[User:Hapenny|Hapenny]] 14:14, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

"both are given rather broad laissez faire by their Patrician to conduct their duties" isn't laissez faire strongly connected to free market policies? I'm not native speaker but I heard this term exclusivly in such context in english. [[User:Uzytkownik|Uzytkownik]] 20:42, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

But at the risk of getting political, Margaret Thatcher discovered that to make the laissez-faire free market work in Britain, she needed a ''very'' strong authoritarian police force! This was necessary to impose free market economic theory on the malcontents and leftover socialists, who insisted on belonging to the sort of strong trade unions who only served to hinder its operation... it's amazing how often the light tiller of Government needed a repressive police force to use, to back up its ideas about freedom and the free market! --[[User:AgProv|AgProv]] 13:28, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

== Dr Lawn ==

Mossy Lawn is certainly NOT a reference to Bartholomew Mosse

In The UK, anyone with the surname Lawn is called Mossy or some similar 'witty' nickname at some point

John Lawn, a fan of some long standing, won the right to have a character named after him in an upcoming book, back at the 2001 Wadfest, and had the choice of a pox doctor or an assassin

He chose what he thought would be funniest

[[User:Chrisboote|Chrisboote]] 15:59, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

Talk:Book:Night Watch/Annotations

2009-12-09T15:59:21Z

Chrisboote: /* Dr Lawn */ new section

The Baker Street Irregulars have been mentioned before, but no one ever explains what the connection is between a group of street urchins working for the good guys and an evil crew of secret policemen working for the villain. They could be compared to the Canting Crew, maybe, but I don't see why the Unmentionables. (The Bow Street Runners would be more credible.) --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] 17:26, 23 June 2007 (CEST)

10 year old [[Nobby Nobbs]], now, is exactly a Baker Street Irregular. ...--[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] 02:51, 24 June 2007 (CEST)

[[User:Hapenny|Hapenny]] now says it's a definite reference, but fails to say why, or who told her.
I remain totally unconvinced. ...--[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] 17:45, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Come on, Dickens. [Name] Street [Particulars/Irregulars]? I really don't see how you can claim that to be pure coincidence. One could even say that particular (as in precious and pedantic) is a contrast to irregular, but that may be pushing it. Ha'penny is completely convinced. Her jaw drops at the idea that it could be anything else. As a matter of fact, a quick google will show you that the APF backs me up completely (http://www.lspace.org/books/apf/maskerade.html page 247).--[[User:Hapenny|Hapenny]] 18:29, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

I'm probably out-voted again. No one's come up with any relation between the street children and the very Establishment secret police for me yet. Do you mean only that the the form of the name is the same? --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] 20:00, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

I don't think it needs to run deep - when I first came across it in Maskerade, it made me chuckle but I never saw it intended as any meaningful comparison. If I think about it, I can sense various contrasts which could be said to be drawn between Establishment Particulars and urchin Irregulars but I frankly don't think it's worth it.--[[User:Hapenny|Hapenny]] 17:25, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Whereas I would say the only reason to mention it would be as part of a discussion of various substitutions of opposites in {{NW}}, probably including Nobby as an Irregular type who grew into a corrupt policeman - but that's why I don't get involved in annotation; I only mentioned this one because it keeps creeping into the real articles. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] 17:57, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree then. I hope we don't clash over this again, but I feel it's a valid annotation to insert at the bottom of a "real" article, perhaps not on the Watch one but on the Particulars --[[User:Hapenny|Hapenny]] 14:14, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

"both are given rather broad laissez faire by their Patrician to conduct their duties" isn't laissez faire strongly connected to free market policies? I'm not native speaker but I heard this term exclusivly in such context in english. [[User:Uzytkownik|Uzytkownik]] 20:42, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

But at the risk of getting political, Margaret Thatcher discovered that to make the laissez-faire free market work in Britain, she needed a ''very'' strong authoritarian police force! This was necessary to impose free market economic theory on the malcontents and leftover socialists, who insisted on belonging to the sort of strong trade unions who only served to hinder its operation... it's amazing how often the light tiller of Government needed a repressive police force to use, to back up its ideas about freedom and the free market! --[[User:AgProv|AgProv]] 13:28, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

== Dr Lawn ==

Mossy Lawn is certainly NOT a reference to Bartholomew Mosse

In The UK, anyone with the surname Lawn is called mossy or some similar 'witty' nickname at some point

John Lawn won the right to have a character named after him in an upcoming book, back the 2001 Wadfest, and had the choice of a pox doctor or an assassin

He chose what he thought would be funniest

[[User:Chrisboote|Chrisboote]] 15:59, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

Talk:Book:Monstrous Regiment/Annotations

2009-12-09T14:49:34Z

Chrisboote: /* Cheesemongers et al */ new section

In fact ''The Lincolnshire Poacher'' seems to have been the official march of the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10th_Regiment_of_Foot 10th Foot] of Lincolnshire, but why can't I search out any reference to the novelty hit of the fifties that used the tune to tell how "you'll never get rid of the ''bomp-bomp-bomp'', no matter what you do"? OK, it was ''The Thing'', by Phil Harris. It's always in there somewhere. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] 15:12, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

The website of the American contingent of the [http://tenthfoot.org/Songs/tunes.html Tenth of Foot] (Bostonian [[Peeled Nuts]]) includes a wonderful page of songs of the era, including ''Polly Oliver'' - a rather different story from our Polly/Oliver's. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] 17:59, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

== Eternal Soldiers? ==

I've still got it in my head that Polly and the girls are also a re-imagining of the "eternal soldier" types most famously used by Sven Hassel in his series of pulp-fictions about the 27th (Penal) Panzer Regiment in WW2. Although the first book in the series, '''''Legion of the Damned''''', is itself a homage reworking of Erich-Maria Remarque's '''''All Quiet on the Western Front''''', updating the action to WW2 Nazi Germany and still using Remarque's original characters. A direct link back to Remarque's clasic anti-war novel - not to mention the classic film made from it - might be wholly in keeping with Pratchett's intentions here.

* Major [[Clogston]] - Oberst Hinka

* Lieutenant [[Blouse]] - Lieutenant Lowe

* Sergeant [[Jackrum]] - Oberfeldwebel Willi Bauer, "The Old Man"

* Corporal [[Strappi]] - Sergeant Heide, the die-hard Nazi, snoop, and informer

* [[Polly Perks]] Fahnenjunker Sven Hassel

* [[Igor#Igor in the Ins-and-Outs, Borogravia|Igor]] -

* [[Maladict]] - Corporal "By The Grace of God" Josef Porta

* [[Carborundum]] - Private Wolfgang "Tiny" Creutzfeldt.

* [[Tonker Halter|"Tonker" Halter]] - the Legionnaire?
* [[Shufti Manickle|"Shufti" Manickle]]
* [[Wazzer Goom|"Wazzer" Goom]]
* [[Lofty Tewt|"Lofty" Tewt]]

I also wouldn't be surprised if a bit of Hašek’s classic satire '''''Good Soldier Svejk[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Good_Soldier_%C5%A0vejk]''''' creeps in there as well... in fact, there are odd echoes.

The idiot-savant Svejk, a peasant who hides cunning under a stupid-seeming exterior,narrowly evades arrest by the secret policeman Corporal Bretschneider (Strappi?) and on enlistment into the 91st, is assigned as batman to the officer Lieutenant Lukaš and at one point has to shave him (cf Polly and Blouse). The company cook is a mystic who claims to receive spiritualist messages from long-dead monarchs. The regiment belongs to an Army serving a dying empire (Austro-Hungary, which fits the central European vibe of "Borogravia") and in fact crumbles into defeat in its first serious engagement. Svejk spends a long time detached from his unit and trying to find his way back to it, evading capture and the enemy on both sides (he is nearly shot for spying and/or desertion)

--[[User:AgProv|AgProv]] 08:55, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

== Cheesemongers et al ==

A rather funny line in University Challenge in summer 2009

PAXMAN: "The names 'Cheesemongers', "Cherrypickers', 'Bob's Own', 'The Emperors Chambermaids', and 'The Immortals' are or have been used for which groups of men?"

BUZZ

CONTESTANT: "Homosexuals!"

PAXMAN: "No! They are regiments in the British army and they're going to be very cross with you."

[[User:Chrisboote|Chrisboote]] 14:49, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

Talk:Book:Thud!/Annotations

2009-12-09T13:54:27Z

Chrisboote: /* ferric chloride */ new section

What an interesting way to get people interested in reading! Book trailers are like movie trailers, but for books! You can find them all over the internet now, but here is a site that's featuring them on YouTube. http://www.youtube.com/booktrailers

Re: Mr. Sheen. The gag referred to cleaning stubborn surfaces, not polishing furniture, and Mr. Sheen seems to made by something called ''Reckitt Benckiser''. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] 13:30, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

re: 74, 93 – The “Following Dark” symbol which Helmclever makes with his spilled coffee (explained by Carrot later) is a circle with two diagonal lines through it. This is similar to British roadsigns meaning “No parking.” - the sign it remind me of is the "No Stopping (Clearway)" e.g. at http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/Signsandmarkings/index.htm?IdcService=GET_FILE&dID=96192&Rendition=Web

:Yep. See [[Mine sign]]. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] 21:43, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

== American sorority? British public school? ==

Hmmm. Americans have sororities and fraternities at their universities, institutions designed to bond likeminded people and for which Britain has no real equivalent. Apparently the more prestigious sororities and frats are ''exceedingly'' choosy about who they recruit, and tend to be élitist, snobbish, class-conscious, et c, and reduce their new intake each semester to People Who Are Demonstrably Like We Are. (Yes, I have watched "Animal House").

Meanwhile, British public schools, especially the older and more expensive ones, have already pre-selected on grounds of class, income, social background, et c, and tend to restrict their new intake to People Who Are Demonstrably Like We Are.

So I'd say both sets of compsrisons to Sybil Ramkin's school and her schoolmates are in their way equally valid. Buntys and Bubbleses exist on both sides of the great divide, after all!--[[User:AgProv|AgProv]] 21:44, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

Although ''Bunty'' is peculiarly English, I think, for either sex. American debs tend to sound more like bunny-rabbits: ''Mimsy, Bitsy,...''. I had an aunt nicknamed ''Bunty'' (not to her face); I suspect lately that was foisted on her because she was a little too ladylike and upper-crusty for the crowd. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] 22:30, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

== "Ankh-Morpork Mission of the Uberwald League of Temperance and red ribbons: " ==

Black ribbons, surely?

[[User:Chrisboote|Chrisboote]] 13:48, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

== ferric chloride ==

Ferric Chloride is indeed very nasty stuff
When dissolved in water, it undergoes hydrolysis and gives off heat. The resulting brown, acidic, and corrosive solution is used as a coagulant in sewage treatment or for etching copper
What that would do to the superconductor brain of a troll is anyone's guess - but nothing good!

Talk:Book:Thud!/Annotations

2009-12-09T13:48:23Z

Chrisboote: /* "Ankh-Morpork Mission of the Uberwald League of Temperance and red ribbons: " */

Talk:Book:Thud!/Annotations

2009-12-09T13:48:07Z

Chrisboote: /* "Ankh-Morpork Mission of the Uberwald League of Temperance and red ribbons: " */ new section