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Discworld calendar

2021-12-02T02:31:26Z

Danochy: /* Roundworld Common Years */

{{hatnote|This article is about the counting and naming of years and days on Discworld. For the calendar-like-books, like ''Diaries'', see [[Bibliography#Diaries|Bibliography]]. For the commercial wall-calendars, see [[Discworld Calendars]].}}

==General==
A Discworld celestial year has 800 days and because of some interesting astronomical facts two of each seasons (two summers, two winters, etc.). This leads to the fact that many people actually do not count the astronomical years, but the half-years with 400 days, often refered to as "common years". The half-year has 13 months, listed below. Each month except Ick has 32 days, Ick has 16 days. Each week has eight days. The eighth day of each week is called Octeday.

There are two main calendars in use on Discworld. The [[Ankh-Morpork Calendar]] counts full years and starts at the founding of [[Ankh-Morpork]], the [[University Calendar]] starts at the founding of [[Unseen University]] (in 1282 AM) and counts in half-years. Oddly enough, while the Imperial Ankh-Morpork calendar offers intellectual purity and mathematical elegance, the general populace tends to use the Weird, Wild, Wacky Wizards' calendar, which happens to correspond to the growing season.

==Years and centuries==
Centuries and years are named. We are currently in the Century of the Anchovy ({{CJ}}). It was preceded by the Century of the Fruitbat ({{MP}}) and even earlier by the [[Century of the Three Lice]], and the [[Djelibeybi|Century of the Cobra]] ({{SG}}).

In [[Feet of Clay]] it is posed by [[Doc Pseudopolis]], President of the Guild of Gamblers that the next century would not be the [[Century of the Anchovy]] but instead the [[Century of the Rat]]. This is met with no protest by the Guild leaders but is not mentioned again in the Discworld Novels.

* The [[Century of the Summer Weevil]] (mentioned in {{UA}})
* The [[Century of the Dragonfly]] (mentioned in {{RM}})
* The [[Century of the Three Lice]] (mentioned in {{RM}})
* The [[Century of the Cobra]] (mentioned in {{P}})
* The [[Century of the Fruitbat]] (mentioned in {{RM}}, {{MAA}}, {{MP}}, {{SG}}, {{LL}}, {{CJ}}, {{T5E}}, {{TT}}, {{SM}}, {{P}})
* The [[Century of the Anchovy]] (mentioned in {{GP}} & {{MM}})
* The [[Century of the Rat]] (mentioned in {{MAA}})

== Notable past years==
* The [[Kreeblephor|Year of the Lenient Vegetable]] - in which Bishop [[Kreeblephor]] converted a demon to the [[Om]]nian faith.
* The [[Year of the Significant Triangle]] (Birth year of [[Windle Poons]])
* The [[Year of the Astounded Beetle]]‎
* The [[Year of the Engaging Sloth]]
* The [[Year of the Hyena]] (events of {{S}})
* The [[Year of the Notional Serpent]]
* The [[Year of the Insulted Goat]] (mentioned in {{M!!!}})
* The [[Year of the Dancing Dog]] (1961 mentioned by Dibbler in {{NW}})
* The [[Year of the Prawn]] (Common Year 2005; Scholar's Year 1657)
* The [[Cabbage|Year of the Pensive Frog]]
* The Year of the Trout (mentioned in {{CJ}})
* The [[Year of the Revolving Crab]] (mentioned in {{WA}})
* The Year of the Sideways Leech (mentioned in {{H}})
* The Year of the Talking Frog (mentioned in {{H}})
* The [[Year of the Ant]] (mentioned in {{TT}})
* The [[Year of the Amending Camel]] (mentioned in {{TT}})
* The [[Year of the Translated Rat]] (mentioned in {{TT}})
* The [[Year of the Lice]] (mentioned in {{T!}})
* The [[Year of the Quiet Monkey]] (mentioned in {{T!}})
* The [[Year of the Pensive Hare]] - the events of {{UA}} take place shortly after the New Year celebrations which usher in this year. Also Common Year 2009 (see below).
* The [[Year of the Stoat]] (mentioned in {{SN}})
* The [[Year of the Intimidating Porpoise]] (mentioned in ''[[Reaper Man]]'')
* The [[Ee|Year of the Scrofulous Vole]]. (mentioned in {{CDA}})
* The Century of the Cheesemite (mentioned in Turtle Recall The Discworld Companion)

== Roundworld Common Years ==
Since 2005 each Roundworld year (aka Common Year, for the Common Era) as been given a Discworld year name. Most of these do not appear in the books.

* The [[Year of the Prawn]] (Common Year 2005; Scholar's Year 1657)
* The Year of the Signifying Frog (Common Year 2006)
* The Year of the Reversed Ptarmigan (Common Year 2007)
* The Year of the Three Roses (Common Year 2008)
* The Year of the Pensive Hare (Common Year 2009)
* The Year of the Happy Goose (Common Year 2010)
* The Year of the Complicated Monkey (Common Year 2011)
* The Year of the Second Inception (Common Year 2012)
* The Year of the Frog Ascendant (Common Year 2013)
* The Year of the Reciprocating Llama (Common Year 2014)
* The Year of the Spinning Mouse (Common Year 2015)
* The [[Year of the Sneezing Panda]] (Common Year 2016)
* The Year of the [[Backwards-Facing Artichoke]] (Common Year 2017)
* The Year of the Justifiably Defensive Lobster (Common Year 2018)
* The Year of the Incontrovertible Skunk (Common Year 2019)
* The Year of the Condescending Carp (Common Year 2020)
* The Year of the Beleaguered Badger (Common Year 2021)
* The Year of the Lachrymating Leveret (Common Year 2022)<ref>https://twitter.com/terryandrob/status/1466043256391753733</ref>

==Months Of The Discworld Year==
Or rather, of the Discworld's ''half''-year. {{TCDA}} clarifies previously opaque or puzzling aspects of the calendar. Quote:
''This be for the Common Year, that being the four hundred days that measure the Season from Winter's Edge until the snows come again, and the Hogswatch is celebrated. All Celestial measurements, Observations and notations of Stars, houses of the firmament, and other divers heavenly bodies are taken on the Full Celestial year, of eight hundred days, which emcompasses two common years...''

* [[Ick]] - only has sixteen days
* [[Offle]] - all following months have thirty-two
* February
* March
* April
* May
* June
* [[Grune]]
* August
* [[Spune]]
* [[Sektober]]
* [[Ember]]
* December

The year commences on Hogswatch Day and ends on the following Hogswatch Eve.

==Special holidays==

* [[Hogswatch]] Eve, the end of the old common year.
* [[Hogswatch]] Day (first of Ick, start of the new common year)
* [[Soul Cake Tuesday]]
* Day of the Lesser Gods (?same as below?)
* [[Eve of Small Gods]], first midsummer day
* Samedi Nuit Mort (celebrated in Genua)
* Creator's Birthday (28th of April)
* Wear a lilac if you were [[Glorious Revolution|there]] day (25th of May)
* Koom Valley Day (5th of Grune)
* [[Crueltide]], half-year point (end of first half-year, start of next)
* [[Alls Fallow]], 3/4 point of 800-day year, the one day when witches and warlocks stay in bed (parodying {{wp|Halloween|Halloween}}), though in ''[[Wyrd Sisters]]'', [[Esmerelda Weatherwax]] suggests that [[Hogswatch]] is the one day witches shouldn't go out, though this may only apply to Mistress Weatherwax, since her arrival may cause people to feel wary rather than jolly.

== Seasons ==

* Spring Prime, first spring
* Summer: mid-point ''Small Gods' Eve''
* Autumn Prime, first autumn
* Winter Secundus aka Spindlewinter: Mid-point ''Crueltide''
* Secundus Spring
* Summer Two: mid-point ''All's Fallow''
* Secundus Autumn
* Backspindlewinter: mid-point ''Hogswatch''

Discworld seasons are 'explained' in one of four paragraphs in the footnote on page 5 of ''The Colour of Magic''. It is written:

"Since the disc's tiny orbiting sunlet maintains a fixed orbit while the majestic disc turns slowly beneath it, it will be readily deduced that a disc year consists of not four but eight seasons. The summers are those times when the sun rises or sets at the nearest point on the Rim, the winters those occasions when it rises or sets at a point around ninety degrees along the circumference."

==Zodiac==

The Discworld zodiac consists of 64 (8*8) constellations, nebulae or individual stars grouped in thirteen ''Houses''. There may be other constellations that are not part of the zodiac, but it's possible that the Discworld's unusual revolution means that the Discworld sun and/or moon enters all constellations at least once (the "zodiac" is a list of constellations in which the sun or moon [or planets, but there don't seem to be any around Discworld] can be found at some point in time). [[Roundworld]] has 88 constellations (1 of them non-contiguous), 12 of which are in the zodiac (a 13th constellation is also technically in the zodiac, but is not recognized as part of the zodiac). According to research wizard "Numbers" [[Riktor]], who meticulously counted them, there are, or were at the time of counting, 49,873 visible stars in the Discworld heavens. Which is ample raw material for the cosmic Rorschach test that creates constellations.

===The Houses of the Zodiac and their 64 Elements:===
:as described by the well-known mages and scholars Pratchett of Sarum and Pearson of Wincanton

*'''The First House''' - The House of Io
**The Eye of Io
** The Crab
**The Cow of Heaven
**The (Knotted) String
**The Celestial Parsnip

*'''The Second House''' - The House of the Gate
**[[Wezen (the double-headed kangaroo)]]
**The Two Fat Cousins
**The Perhaps Gate
**Scarab's Claw
**[[Mubbo the Hyena]]

*'''The Third House''' - The House of the Bull
**Silicarous's Gift
**The Bull
**Hast's Trumpet
**[[Cubal's Flame]]
**The Void

*'''The Fourth House''' - The House of Melok
**Melok
**Old Toesy
**Vut the Evenstar
**Mr Williams
**Occasional Paddles

*'''The Fifth House''' - The House of the Bright Cabbage
**Blic-Blick
**[[Spune|The Bright Cabbage]]
**The Starfish
**Old Dog
**[[Crabbus]]

*'''The Sixth House''' - The House of the Plow
**Pashmina
**The Flying Moose
**The Pitcher (or Bucket)
**Plough Handle
**Okjock the Salesman

*'''The Seventh House''' - The House of the Star
**The Faint Star Major
**The Faint Star Minor
**The Little Turtle
**The Flagon
**Ket's Knife

*'''The Next House''' - The House of Woldar
**Woldar
**Evar's Footprint
**The Ram's Horn
**Two Rivers
**Young Faithful

*'''The Ninth House''' - The House of the Ram
**The Jumping Ram
**[[Khefin]]'s Eye 1
**[[Khefin|Khefin's Eye 2]]
**[[Khefin|Khefin's Eye 3]]
**[[Khefin|Khefin's Eye 4]]

*'''The Tenth House''' - The House of Trabnor
**Trabnor
**The Lanthorn
**The Wicket
**Turnip's Tail
**The Snipe

*'''The Eleventh House''' - The House of the Horse
**Teg the Horse
**The Miller's Pocket
**[[Astoria's Flame]]
**The Cradle
**The Sleeping Dog

*'''The Twelfth House''' - The House of Fore and Aft
**Young Harry
**Forward
**Aft
**Vut's Candle
**Silur the Catfish

*'''The Thirteenth House''' - The Dread House
**Old Faithful
**The Scythe
**The Coffee Cup
**[[Gahoolie the Vase of Tulips]]

===Annotations===

* Wezen the Doubleheaded Kangaroo: the first constellation (interesting because the wizards don't seem to recognize a kangaroo when they see it in {{TLC}}-- perhaps because it was flattened and had only one head? Although in fairness you couldn't recognize anything else from it's constellation either, and it's never really obvious what is mythical and what isn't!)
* The Two Fat Cousins: possible reference to Tweedledee and Tweedledum?
* The Flying Moose: possible reference to Rocky The Flying Squirrel and Bullwinkle J Moose
* [[The Small Boring Group of Faint Stars]]: Rincewind's birth sign, usually not a wizard's sign. Was much brighter thousands of years ago when the Disc was closer to it (according to {{TLC}}), so it's not clear why the ancients called it "faint"; perhaps they knew the Disc would move away from it long-term?
* The Knotted String: possible pun on "I'm a frayed knot" jokes
* [[Gahoolie the Vase of Tulips]]: the last constellation (now if we could only find that whale)
* the Triangle, mentioned in {{TLC}}, possibly not part of the zodiac

==Related pages==
* [[Discworld Timeline]]
* [[:category:Discworld Timeline|Discworld timeline category]]

[[Category:Discworld concepts]]
[[Category:Discworld Timeline]]

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Talk:Discworld Timeline 2.0

2021-12-02T02:26:09Z

Danochy:

== Discworld Timeline 2.0 ==

=== 1. Prologue ===

So I think it's time to once and for all revisit the [[Discworld Timeline]] and try to fix it as it has a lot of issues with it as of now, contradicting many things stated in the novels as well as what Terry Pratchett himself has said.

Most of it was made a long time ago before the later novels came out which gives us more set dates which contradict the old timeline.

=== 2. Fixed points in time ===

There are a few fixed points in time and ways to help us figure out the date of the novels.

* '''The Battle of Ankh-Morpork is 1688'''

The Discworld Companion: ''"The last civil war, and execution and revelation of the personal habits of lorenzo the kind in 1688, marked the final end of any kind of monarchy in the city."''

The Discworld Companion: ''"The Ankh-Morpork Civil war... ...this would have been 1688."''

* '''Feet of Clay takes place in 1987 1 year before the 300th anniversary of The battle of ankh-morpork'''

Feet of Clay: ''“Thing is, it’s the tricentre—tricera—this three-hundred-year celebration thing next year, Mr. Vimes…”... ...“Well…we’re going to recreate the Battle of Ankh-Morpork for the celebrations... ...“Er…I’m going to be King Lorenzo, sir. Er…you know…the last king, the one your…er…”... ...“And who drew the straw to play Stoneface Vimes?”''

* '''Havelock Vetinari Graduates from the Guild of Assassins in 1968'''

The Truth: ''"Lord Vetinari “—who graduated with full honors from the Guild of Assassins in 1968,"''

* '''Havelock Vetinari is the patrician in all books'''

The Discworld Companion: ''"The holder of the office throughout the Discworld Chronicles (apart from some events in night watch) is Havelock, Lord vetinari"''

lspace.org/books/apf/the-colour-of-magic - Terry Pratchett: ''"I'm pretty certain that the same Patrician was in all the books. [...] He's clearly lost weight and got more austere. It must be the pressure... ..."I've always thought the Patrician is a party animal. Can you imagine waking up next day and remembering all those witty things you said and did, and then realising that he was listening?"''

* '''Havelock Vetinari Therefore Celebrates his 10 year anniversary as a patrician in Mort'''

Mort: ''"On this particular night they were scented with saltpeter, too, because it was the tenth anniversary of the accession of the Patrician"''

* '''Mustrum Ridcully is 72 in Soul Music and 67 in Moving Pictures'''

Moving Pictures: ''"the desk of Mustrum Ridcully, the new Archchancellor of Unseen University... ...And yet, at the time, it had seemed a really good idea to elect an Archchancellor who hadn’t set foot in the University in forty years. There had been so much in-fighting between the various orders of wizardry in recent years that, just for once, the senior wizards had agreed that what the University needed was a period of stability, so that they could get on with their scheming and intriguing in peace and quiet for a few months. A search of the records turned up Ridcully the Brown who, after becoming a Seventh Level mage at the incredibly young age of twenty-seven, had quit the University in order to look after his family’s estates deep in the country."''

Soul Music: ''The Dean: He sighed. He was seventytwo... ...Dean: Your trouble, Archchancellor, is that you don’t understand people of our age!” “What…you mean seven months older than me?” said Ridcully.''

* '''The Glorious Revolution is 25 years before Men at Arms'''

Men at Arms: ''"Vimes said, I’m retiring from the Watch tomorrow. Twenty-five years on the streets"''

* '''The bank crash of 88, 93 and 98 happened before Making Money'''

Making Money: ''"We have been badly buffeted in recent years. The crash of 88, the crash of 93, the crash of 98…"''

=== 3. Old Timeline ===

The old timeline is situated at [[Discworld Timeline]] and is based of this even older timeline on lspace.org https://www.lspace.org/books/timeline/dw-timeline-intro.html

So how does the old timeline fit in with the Fixed points in time? well it's got a couple of issues.

* It breaks the rule that Making Money has to be some time after the crash of 98.
* It breaks the rule that the Glorious Revolution is 25 years before Men at Arms.
* It breaks the rule that Ridcully is 67 in Moving pictures, as well as breaks the 5 year timegap between Moving Pictures and Soul Music.
* It breaks the rule that the Patrician is celebrating his 10 year anniversary in Mort as it assumes that the patrician in Mort is Snapcase.

As you can see there are quite a lot of issues with the current old timeline. And my hope is to try and fix those issues with a timeline that can fit as many of the Fixed points in time as possible.

There are also several other issues with the timeline, for instance Carpe Jugulum is set in the Century of the Anchovy despite stating that it's in the Century of the Fruitbat in the novel.

Carpe Jugulum: ''"Are we not in a unique position as we reach the end of the Century of the Fruitbat?"''

And the fact that several novels in the timeline were placed based upon complete guesses like x novel probably takes place 2 years after y novel because that seems like a good idea.

=== 4. Discworld Timeline 2.0 - A new beginning. ===

First we want to create a set novel we can base the others around, for this the best is the novel that we know exactly when it takes place. Feet of Clay.

==== 4.1 Early Watch novels ====

'''Feet of Clay Is 1 year before the 300th anniversary of the battle of ankh-morpork. The Discworld Companion companion details this very well.'''

Feet of Clay: ''“Thing is, it’s the tricentre—tricera—this three-hundred-year celebration thing next year, Mr. Vimes…”... ...“Well…we’re going to recreate the Battle of Ankh-Morpork for the celebrations... ...“Er…I’m going to be King Lorenzo, sir. Er…you know…the last king, the one your…er…”... ...“And who drew the straw to play Stoneface Vimes?”''

The Discworld Companion: ''"The last civil war, and execution and revelation of the personal habits of lorenzo the kind in 1688, marked the final end of any kind of monarchy in the city."''

The Discworld Companion: ''"The Ankh-Morpork Civil war... ...this would have been 1688."''

'''So {{FOC}} is 1987 and we can easily plot out Guards! Guards! in 1985 and Men at Arms in 1986'''

{{FOC}}: ''"Carrot paused. It said a lot about Captain Carrot that, even after almost two years in Ankh-Morpork"''

{{FOC}}: ''"But he hasn’t touched a drop all year!” said Carrot, giving the recumbent Vimes a shake. “He goes to meetings about it and everything!"''

'''We can now place the Glorious revolution 25 years before Men at Arms which would be 1961'''

{{MAA}}: ''"Vimes said, I’m retiring from the Watch tomorrow. Twenty-five years on the streets"''

'''{{SM}} takes place some time between Men at Arms and Feet of Clay, Detritus takes place in the watch in Men at Arms, is a Constable in Soul Music, and Sergeant in Feet of Clay. This means that Soul Music has to take place ether 1986 or 1987'''

'''{{M}} has to take place some time 16 or more years before Soul Music as Susan is 16 years old in Soul Music. It also has to take place some time after The Color of Magic and The Light Fantastic as the librarian is ape-shaped'''

{{M}}: ''“Oook.”''

{{SM}}: ''"“How old are you?” “Sixteen.”''

'''Moving Pictures takes place 5 years before Soul Music as Ridcully is 67 in Moving Pictures and 72 in Soul Music'''

Moving Pictures: ''"the desk of Mustrum Ridcully, the new Archchancellor of Unseen University... ...And yet, at the time, it had seemed a really good idea to elect an Archchancellor who hadn’t set foot in the University in forty years. There had been so much in-fighting between the various orders of wizardry in recent years that, just for once, the senior wizards had agreed that what the University needed was a period of stability, so that they could get on with their scheming and intriguing in peace and quiet for a few months. A search of the records turned up Ridcully the Brown who, after becoming a Seventh Level mage at the incredibly young age of twenty-seven, had quit the University in order to look after his family’s estates deep in the country."''

Soul Music: The Dean: ''He sighed. He was seventytwo... ...Dean: Your trouble, Archchancellor, is that you don’t understand people of our age!” “What…you mean seven months older than me?” said Ridcully.''

'''Reaper Man takes place at the same time as Moving Pictures'''

Moving Pictures: ''"Windle Poons, who was one hundred and thirty years old"''

Reaper Man: ''"He was one hundred and thirty" (on windle poons age)''

'''Small Gods takes place in the same year as Reaper Man'''

Reaper Man: ''"Windle poons-born in the year of the Significant Triangle... ... died in the year of the Notional Serpent in the Century of the Fruitbat"''

Small Gods: ''"It was the Year of the Notional Serpent, or two hundred years after the Declaration of the Prophet Abbys."''

'''Small Gods also takes place 100 years before Reaper Man at the same time, in the year of the notional serpent in the Century of the Three Lice'''

Thief of Time: ''"The history of the country of Ephebe was puzzling, for example. Either its famous philosophers lived for a very long time, or inherited their names, or extra bits had been stitched into history there. The history of Omnia was a mess. Two centuries had been folded into one, by the look of it, and it was only because of the mind-set of the Omnians, whose religion mixed the past and future with the present in any case, that it could possibly have passed unnoticed."''

Thief of Time: ''THE BOOK OF TOBRUN HAS NOT BEEN CONSIDERED OFFICIAL CHURCH DOGMA FOR A HUNDRED YEARS. THE PROPHET BRUTHA REVEALED THAT THE WHOLE CHAPTER WAS A METAPHOR FOR A POWER STRUGGLE WITHIN THE EARLY CHURCH. IT IS NOT INCLUDED IN THE REVISED VERSION OF THE BOOK OF OM, AS DETERMINED BY THE CONVOCATION OF EE.''

'''Now comes the Patrician. Vetinari needs to have been the Patrician for 10 years before Mort, and we know that Snapcase is the Patrician at the end of Night Watch. This means that we need to have 10 years between Mort and The Glorious Revolution. This would mean that Mort has to be placed in 1971, and Soul Music 16 years later in 1987. This also means that The color of magic and The Light Fantastic has to be placed sometime between 1961 and 1971.'''

'''But Vetinari graduated from the assassins guild in 1968 how does that fit with him becoming patrician in 1961? Well to solve this we have to assume that Snapcase had a very short reign followed by Vetinari taking over, then 7 years later Vetinari gets his post-grad diploma while Patrician, something the Guild of Assassins is known to do.'''

Men at Arms: ''"That afternoon he (Edward) sold what remained of the d’Eath estates, and enrolled again at the Guild school. For the post-graduate course"''

'''The current timeline looks like this'''

Century of the Three Lice

* 1882 - Small Gods

Century of the Fruitbat

* 1961 - The Glorious Revolution (Night Watch)
* 1961 ~~ 1971 - The Color of Magic, Light Fantastic
* 1971 - Mort
* 1982 - Moving Pictures, Reaper Man, Small Gods
* 1985 - Guards! Guards!, Theatre of Cruelty
* 1986 - Men at Arms
* 1987 - Feet of Clay, Soul Music

==== 4.2 Young Sam Vimes is the Key ====

'''Now Young Sam Vimes is key to solving most of the timeline, we get to know his age in several novels which helps us to accurately place the others.'''

'''The Truth Takes place 1~37 months before Night Watch. it's after the first Clacks company was founded 25~37 months before Night Watch (see 4.3 Adding Moist) and The Ankh-Morpork Times appears in Night Watch'''

The Truth: ''"Dibbler sighed. “I missed out on the semaphore. Just didn’t see it coming. Next thing you know, everyone’s got a clacks company. Big money... ...“And there’s this clacks from Lancre that came in when you’d gone home,” said the dwarf. “That’ll cost us another fifty pence for the messenger.''

'''Jingo Takes place "a few months" before The Fifth Elephant as Buggy Swires Joined the watch "a few months" before The Fifth Elephant and is in the watch in Jingo'''

''Jingo: *“That’s Probationary Constable Buggy Swires, sir. He likes to get a good view.”*

The Fifth Elephant: ''"Constable Swires had been on the force only for a few months, but news had gone around and already he inspired respect, or at least the bladder-trembling terror that can pass for respect on these occasions"''

'''The Fifth Elephant Takes place 1~9 months before Night Watch as Sybil Ramkin is pregnant with Young Sam Vimes'''

'''Young Sam Vimes is born in Night Watch'''

Night Watch: ''"Sybil was sitting up. He saw, through the mist of exhaustion, that she was holding something wrapped in a shawl. “He’s called Sam, Sam,” she said. “And no argument.”"''

'''Thief of Time Takes place at the same time/before Night Watch as the same storm occurs in both.'''

Night Watch: ''"The lightning struck. Windows blew out and iron gutters melted. Roofs lifted into the air and settled again. Buildings shook. But this storm had been blowing in from far across the plains, pushing the natural background magic ahead of it. It dumped it now, all in one go. They said afterward that the bolt of lightning hit a clockmaker’s shop in the Street of Cunning Artificers, stopping all the clocks at that instant."''

'''Where's My Cow? Takes place 13 months after Night Watch as Young Sam Vimes is 1 year old and the event is mentioned in Thud! which is 14 months after Night Watch'''

Where's My Cow?: ''"to read to Young Sam, who was one year old."''

Thud!: ''"after a trying day, he’d tried the Vimes street version"''

'''Thud! Takes place 14 months after Night Watch and Interesting Times as Young Sam Vimes is 14 Months old'''

Thud!: ''"fourteen-month-old baby"'''

'''Snuff Takes place 6 years after Night Watch and Interesting Times as Young Sam Vimes is 6 years old'''

Snuff: ''"an absolute hoot for a boy just turned six... ...the whole process being a matter of huge entertainment to a boy of six"''

'''Raising Steam Takes place 8 years after The Fifth Elephant which would be about 7~8 years after Night Watch'''

Raising Steam: ''"The King coughed before saying to Vimes, “I remember Sergeant Littlebottom when we met by the Scone of Stone eight years ago. Oh, yes, I remember her.”''

==== 4.3 Adding Moist Von Lipwig ====

'''Going Postal Takes place 3 almost 4 years from the invention of the first clacks company'''

Going Postal: ''"He hadn’t seen a clacks until three years ago, when the first company was founded... ...Sane Alex and Mad Al were old men in the clacks business; they’d been in it for almost four years."''

The Fifth Elephant: ''"The new guild must be coining money. Even from here he could see the scaffolding, as workers feverishly attached still more gantries and paddles to the main tower." "It had all happened so fast. Who’d have believed it?" "And it had caught on as fast as every other craze did in the big city."''

'''Going Postal also have to take place some time before Thud! as Moist von Lipwigs stamp invention is mentioned.'''

Thud!: ''Remember the cabbage-scented stamp last month?... ...Oh yes, two stamps. They were very nearly identical. They both showed Koom Valley, a rocky area ringed by mountains. They both showed the battle. But in one, little figures of trolls were pursuing dwarfs from right to left, and in the other, dwarfs were chasing trolls from left to right''

'''So we can't place going postal later than 14 months after Night Watch which means that the first clacks company would have to have been created sometime 39~51 months before Thud! or 25~37 months before Night Watch, (Remember that i'm using Discworld years which are 13 months each.)'''

'''Going Postal is also the first novel to mention being in the Century of The Anchovy, The Fifth Elephant and The Truth are detailed as being in the Century of the Fruitbat.'''

Going Postal: ''"not at all what we need in the Century of the Anchovy... ...there’s the Times and the Pseudopolis Herald"''

The Fifth Elephant: ''"you’d hardly think you were in the Century of the Fruitbat."''

The Truth: ''“Yes, Dr. Dinwiddie. Er…the Century of the Fruitbat is nearly over, sir... ...the Century of the Fruitbat,” said the Bursar. “We…that’s the one we’re just about to leave, sir.”''

==== 4.4 Creating a timeline with 4.2 and 4.3 ====

'''Since Making Money is situated at earliest in 1998 this means that Going Postal cannot be earlier than 1997. And since Going Postal has to be sometime before Thud! we know that Thud! can't be earlier than 1997 either.'''

'''We also know that The Glorious Revolution cannot take place earlier than 1958 as that is 39 years before Thud! at earliest possible date. and they would probably say more'n 40 or 40 years ago if that was the case. We also know that Thud! cannot take place later than 2000 as that would be 39 years after The Glorious Revolution in 1961.'''

Thud!: ''Barricades, sir, Colon prompted. “More’n thirty years ago?” Vimes gave a curt nod. Oh yes, he remembered the Glorious Revolution''

'''For Going Postal to then take place in The Century of The Anchovy but before Thud! we can place it at the year of 2000 since that is the latest date at which we can place Thud!'''

'''This means our current timeline looks like this'''

Century of the Three Lice

* 1882 - Small Gods

Century of the Fruitbat

* 1961 - The Glorious Revolution (Night Watch)
* 1961 ~~ 1971 - The Color of Magic, Light Fantastic
* 1971 - Mort
* 1982 - Moving Pictures, Reaper Man, Small Gods
* 1985 - Guards! Guards!, Theatre of Cruelty
* 1986 - Men at Arms
* 1987 - Feet of Clay, Soul Music
* 1997/8/9 - Jingo, The Truth
* 1998/9 - The Fifth Elephant
* 1999 - Thief of Time, Night Watch

Century of the Anchovy

* 2000 - Going Postal, Where's My Cow?, Thud!
* 2001 - Making Money
* 2005 - Snuff
* 2006/7 - Raising Steam

==== 4.5 Tiffany Aching ====

'''Since we now have a date for Raising Steam we can somewhat accurately place the Tiffany Aching Novels. The Shepherd's Crown details that the railway is in it's infancy, this places The Shepherd's Crown sometime close after or during Raising Steam'''

The Shepherd's Crown: ''"The railway was still in its infancy – and already there were these arches"... ...‘Last train into Twoshirts is that... ...she thought: Train? It’s big. It’s iron, and we don’t know about it. And what we don’t know about it could get us killed... ...A belch of smoke from a train steaming over the arches almost enveloped both the dwarf and Geoffrey... ...This fell into a very handy pause as an almighty roar announced another train shooting overhead, smoke and smut billowing in the air"''

'''With this in mind we can place The Shepherd's Crown in 2006/7/8 I Shall Wear Midnight is one to two years before The Shepherd's Crown so it takes place some time 2004/5/6/7'''

The Shepherd's Crown: ''"He recognized her immediately – he had had a bad moment when she’d called in a year or two back and let slip she knew the Feegles."'' (Dave the broomstick repair man on the event in ISWM when Tiffany was 15)

'''Wintersmith is 3 years before I Shall Wear Midnight so it takes place sometime 2001/2/3/4'''

I Shall Wear Midnight: ''You’re not sixteen yet and I see you running around nursing people and bandaging people and who knows what chores... ...some seven years ago you took an iron skillet and went into some sort of fairyland"''

Wintersmith: ''Tiffany gave up and sighed. 'I’m almost thirteen,' she said. 'I can look after myself.'" and "It was her birthday....Thirteen years old.''

'''This also fits in with Wintersmith having to take place sometime after The Truth as it mentions the newspaper. and probably sometime after Going Postal as it mentions Groat as Assistant Postmaster'''

Wintersmith: ''"This was reported in the newspapers, and shortly afterward a widow wrote to him saying how much she admired a man who really understood about hygiene. They later were seen walking together, so it’s an ill wind, as they say…"''

Wintersmith: ''"Assistant Postmaster Groat did not believe in doctors. They made you ill, he thought. So he put sulfur in his socks every morning and he was proud to say that he had never had a day’s illness in his life. This may have been because not many people cared to come very close to him, because of the smell. Something did, though. A gale roared into his post office when he was opening the door one morning and blew his socks clean off. And no one heard the Wintersmith say: “Sulfur enough to make a man!”''

'''A Hat Full of Sky is 1 year before Wintersmith so it takes place sometime 2000/1/2/3'''

A Hat Full of Sky: ''"Anyway, she was eleven now, and had a feeling that after a certain age you shouldn’t slide down holes in the ground to talk to little men."''

'''The Wee Free Men is 2 years before A Hat Full of Sky so it takes place sometime 1998/9/2000/1'''

The Wee Free Men: ''"She was nine years old and felt that Tiffany was going to be a hard name to live up to."''

==== 4.6 The Rest ====

'''The rest of the novels are very hard to place and have been placed on the old timeline by pure guesses. But here's what we know.'''

'''Equal Rites Takes place sometime after The Light Fantastic and before Moving Pictures'''

* Equal Rites: ''“Ook?” said the Head Librarian''
* Eskarina Smith is 7 and 8 in Equal Rites by the time of I Shall Wear Midnight it's hinted that she's old but look young, she can however time travel.
* Equal Rites: ''"bow to Archchancellor Cutangle"''

'''Wyrd Sisters Takes place sometime 15 years before Witches Abroad as the Lancre Timeslip moves the witches forward 15 years in time.'''

* One theory is that this is sometime 5 years before Jingo as Leonard of Quirm is mentioned in Wyrd Sisters but goes missing 5 years before Jingo

Wyrd Sisters: ''“Who designed it?” “A daft old chap in the Street of Cunning Artificers,” said Vitoller. “Leonard of Quirm. He’s a painter really. He just does this sort of thing for a hobby. I happened to hear that he’s been working on this for months. I just snapped it up quick when he couldn’t get it to fly.”''

Jingo: ''“I know who he is!” Fred hissed. “That’s Leonard of Quirm, that is! He went missing five years ago!”''

'''Witches Abroad Takes place sometime 15 years after the early events in Wyrd Sisters. It is said that Nanny has known Granny Weatherwax for 70 years by this point.'''

Witches Abroad: ''"Nanny, who had known Esme Weatherwax for seventy years"''

'''Lords and Ladies Takes place 3 months before Maskerade as Verence and Magrat gets married in it and in Maskerade it's stated that it's been 3 months since the wedding.'''

Maskerade: ''"And Magrat had been married for three months"''

'''Carpe Jugulum Takes place sometime during the Century of the Fruitbat'''

* Carpe Jugulum: ''"Are we not in a unique position as we reach the end of the Century of the Fruitbat?"''
* Esme is just 2 weeks old having been born sometime between Maskerade and Carpe Jugulum: ''“Little Esme’s only two weeks old,”''
* The novel ends with: ''"The year was past the edge, heading away from the dark…Of course, dark would come again, but that was in the nature of the world. Many things were beginning"''

'''Sourcery Takes place sometime before Moving Pictures and less than 16 years before The Truth and Takes place about 16 years after Rincewind started trying to become a wizard'''

Sourcery: ''"he did have a small and exceedingly elderly wire-haired terrier called Wuffles"''

The Truth: ''“How old would he be now?” “Sixteen,”''

Sourcery: ''"Tonight would be the Eve of Small Gods, and a new Archchancellor would be elected... ...this year it was a pretty good bet that the gods would see their way clear to selecting old Virrid Wayzygoose"''

Sourcery: ''"Examine Rincewind, as he peers around the sullen shelves. There are eight levels of wizardry on the Disc; after sixteen years Rincewind has failed to achieve even level one. In fact it is the considered opinion of some of his tutors that he is incapable even of achieving level zero, which most normal people are born at;"''

'''Eric Takes place sometime before Moving Pictures'''

Eric: ''"Finally the new Archchancellor, Ezrolith Churn"''

'''Interesting Times Takes place sometime after Moving Pictures and years ago since Sourcery'''

Interesting Times: ''"Mustrum Ridcully, as head of the college of wizard"''

Interesting Times: ''"Rincewind is a bloody nuisance!.. ..Anyway, he hasn’t been seen here since that…unpleasantness with the Sourcerer, years ago."''

'''One popular theory is linking Cohens age to Interesting Times and The Light Fantastic with this we might be able to place Interesting Times however he's rather uncertain of his age in Interesting Times'''

The Light Fantastic: '''“You don’t live to be eighty-seven in his job if you go around dying all the time'''

Interesting Times: ''“Oh, I dunno. Ninety? Could be ninety. Maybe ninety-five?”... ...“When you’ve survived for ninety years”''

'''It's also very vaguely hinted that it might be 5 years since he saw rincewind in The Light Fantastic but the narrator dialogue probably doesn't mean exactly 5 years. it's just a figure of speech'''

Interesting Times: ''As far as Cohen was concerned, people appeared, people disappeared. After a five-year gap he’d just say, “Oh, it’s you.” He never added, “And how are you?.. ..To Rincewind’s relief a spare horse didn’t have to be eaten because a leopardly sort of creature dropped off a tree branch and tried to disembowel Cohen.''

'''So with this to play with it could be that Interesting Times is sometime 3, 4, 5 ,6 ,7 ,8 years after The Light Fantastic this is often explained in theories as Cohen having been stuck in the Lancre timeslip for 15 years to fit with it also taking place after Moving Pictures and Cohen therefore is missing adding on 15 years, which would mean that Interesting Times takes place sometime 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23 years after The Light Fantastic, the old timeline used the lancre timesplit theory to fit this in.'''

'''One could use the Lancre timeslip to make this fit with what i've written about the timeline before. or one could simply postulate that Cohen was just 3 years off and is actually 98 as this would fit with Interesting Times taking place right after Moving Pictures 11 years after The Light Fantastic without having to include the Lancre timeslip. as we hear Cohen say himself he's not really sure about his age. so in all, we have no conclusive proof of Interesting Times taking place anywhere other than after Moving Pictures'''

'''The Last Continent Takes place "several / a couple of months" after Interesting Times and "years ago" since sometime after Sourcery'''

Interesting Times: ''"Rincewind was sent to some other place... ...“At least you can show us where you think our man is,”... ...“‘XXXX,’” Ponder read"''

The Last Continent: ''"This was Rincewind after several months: his wizardly robe was quite short now... ... “I only got here a couple of months ago."''

Interesting Times: ''"I don't know anything about that [unpleasantness with the Sourcerer]. I wasn't Dean at the time."''

The Last Continent: ''“This is the memo saying I’ve been appointed as Dean!” he said. “That was years ago!”''

'''The Last Continent also takes place sometime 3-12 years since Moving Pictures as Ridcully is appointed Archchancellor at the age of 67 in Moving Pictures and is still in his seventies.'''

The Last Continent: ''"Ridcully was in his seventies and spry even for wizards"''

'''Unseen Academicals Takes place in the Year of the Pensive Hare sometime after The Truth and The Fifth Elephant'''

Unseen Academicals: ''"This is the year of the Pensive Hare.. ..the Times came along to take pictures... ...He had in fact got it from a leader in the Times"''

Unseen Academicals: ''"Constable Haddock tells me the Igor’s on duty.. ..Constable Haddock.. ..Sergeant Angua.. ..Lance-Constable Bluejohn.."''

'''Monstrous Regiment takes place more than thirty years from the Glorious Revolution and sometime after The Truth and the invention of Clacks.'''

Monstrous Regiment: ''“Have you met Constable Shoe, Clarence?” said Vimes cheerfully. “One of my staff. Been dead for more than thirty years"''

Monstrous Regiment: ''"Because your men tore down the Grand Trunk, you see. The clacks towers... ...“I have seen the clacks towers on the far bank of the Kneck,” said Blouse, his eyes lighting up. “Very clever idea, using big shuttered boxes rather than the old-fashioned semaphore arms... ...William de Worde Editor, Ankh-Morpork Times"''

'''Hogfather There really is no way to place this one what i know of, all we know is that Teppic has the same teacher in Pyramids as Teatime in Hogfather and we know it's sometime after Men at Arms as Constable Visit is mentioned.'''

Hogfather: ''"I am in fact Corporal Nobbs of the Watch. And this is Constable Visit, sir.”''

Hogfather - Teatime: ''"We have to read it, you know, in class. Hah, old Mericet calls it the Guide to the Turf. No one laughs except him, of course"''

Pyramids: ''"Teppic had Mericet for Strategy and Poison Theory every Thursday"''

'''The Amazing Maurice and his Educated Rodents Is really hard to place. however we have some clues. Maurice is 4 years old in The Amazing Maurice and his Educated Rodents:''' ''"thought Maurice. I'm four years old already!"''

'''Reaper Man Mentions Maurice little scam has taken place in several cities already'''

Reaper Man: ''“It’s just that…you remember the trouble with the rats last year? That man who said he had a pipe that played music only rats could hear?” “Yes, but that wasn’t really true, it was all a fraud, it was just the Amazing Maurice and his Educated Rodents—”... ...“Of course it bloody worked,” said the Dean. “It worked in Quirm and Sto Lat as well. He’d have got away with it in Pseudopolis as well if someone hadn’t recognized him. Mr. so-called Amazing Maurice and His Educated Rodents!”''

'''One thing that might help us link the book is Three-quarters of a teddy bear It is hinted that Tiffany Aching might be the girl Maurice took part of a tea party with as a kitten.'''

The Amazing Maurice and his Educated Rodents: ''"Once, when he was no more than a kitten, he'd been taken home by a small girl who'd dressed him up in doll's clothes and sat him at a small table with a couple of dolls and three-quarters of a teddy bear."''

The Wee Free Men: ''Last time Tiffany had tried to arrange a party, the guests had been a rag doll with no head, two wooden soldiers, and three quarters of a small teddy bear''

'''This would place The Amazing Maurice and his Educated Rodents Sometime 3~4 years after Tiffany's birth to Sometime 3~4 years after The Wee Free Men'''

'''Pyramids is also really hard to place. Teatime in Hogfather has the same teacher as Teppic in Pyramids Dr Cruces appear in both Pyramids and Men at Arms and The Philosophers appear in both Pyramids and Small Gods'''

Hogfather - Teatime: ''"We have to read it, you know, in class. Hah, old Mericet calls it the Guide to the Turf. No one laughs except him, of course"''

Pyramids: ''"Teppic had Mericet for Strategy and Poison Theory every Thursday"''

=== 5. Conclusion ===

The way I've puzzled together this timeline breaks none of the rules set forth at the start while the old timeline breaks several of them. However there can definitely be ways to break this timeline as well if we find some evidence. I see this new timeline as the more accurate timeline seeing as the old one is based mostly on wild guesses, the old one also doesn't include the Tiffany Novels and has issues with centuries.

My hope is that you guys can help me Evolve this list and further more accurately place these novels in the timeline, Maybe there are more clues in what weather or season we are experiencing in each novel for instance.

-[[User:WiktorReads|WiktorReads]] 2021-06-20

=== 6. Historical Moments ===

==== 6.1 Something to think about ====

* '''1256 was counted Twice'''

Turtle Recall: ''the city eventually took to using the University’s Ankh-Morpork Years, which at least were reliable and happened one after the other, apart from 1256, which for some reason happened twice...''

* '''AM has been redefined and the calls to AM dates in the companions is following the UC definition of AM which is not the original.'''

Turtle Recall: ''It was founded '''in what was then known as AM 1282''' by Alberto Malich, during the closing days of the Ankh-Morpork Empire... ...The wizards began numbering their years from that date''

* '''The Discworld is at least several hundred million years old.'''

Turtle Recall: ''The continents certainly have moved around (possibly on wheels of some kind, if the molten rock theory is discounted). Discworld time is always a tricky thing to measure, but by inference it must have been several hundred million years ago that the supercontinent of Pangola was struck by a giant meteorite, which may have killed off those lifeforms not equipped by a neglectful Nature to survive impact with flaming rock travelling at several thousand miles a second, and also instigated the break-up which led eventually to the Discworld of today.''

==== 6.2 Laws ====

* 1341 UC - Dignity of Man (Civil Rights) Act
* 1389 UC - Decency Ordinances
* 1457 UC - Public Order Act
* 1467 UC - Privacy Act
* 1508 UC - Industrial Processes Act
* 1567 UC - Public Forgatherings (Gambling) Act
* 1581 UC - Being Bloody Stupid Act
* 1634 UC - Projectile Weapons (Civil Safety) Act
* 1673 UC - Domestic & Domesticated Animals (Care & Protection) Act
* 1678 UC - General Felonies Act
* 1678 UC - Public Ale Houses (Opening) Act
* 1433, 1456, 1463, 1465 and 1470-1690 UC Licensed Premises (Hygiene) Acts

Sources: Turtle Recall The Discworld Companion

==== 6.3 Other ====

* '''The proto-continent of Pangola is split into 2 vast land masses -100,000,000 UC'''

Turtle Recall: ''About one hundred million years before the present day, in the period described by the wizard and geologist BORASS as the Borassic era, the proto-continent had clearly split into two vast land masses — Howondaland (named after the continent where his researches were largely carried out) and Lauragatea (partly named after the empire that occupies much of the Counterweight Continent, and partly after his mother).''

* '''XXXX splits off from the larger continent of Lauragatea -30,000,000 UC'''

Turtle Recall: ''It was the second, smaller continent of Lauragatea which, some thirty million years before the present, lost the even smaller and deeply mysterious continent known only as XXXX, which wandered off by itself (according to Borass) in search of the geographical equivalent of a cool drink.''

* '''The contents of the Ankh-Morpork History monk privy is emptied into a volcano -10,000,000 UC'''

{{NW}}: ''Anyway, I use the temporal toilet, don’t I?” “A privy that discharges ten million years into the past was not a good idea, Sweeper. I’m sorry I let you persuade me.” “It’s saving us fourpence a week to Harry King’s bucket boys, Qu, and that’s not to be sneezed at. Is it not written, ‘A penny saved is a penny earned?’ Besides, it all lands in a volcano anyway. Perfectly hygienic.”''

* '''Hippos sunbathe on the banks of the river Ankh and the first street is formed as a bamboo replica by Qu performing time experiments -700,000 UC'''

{{NW}}: ''Ankh-Morpork would have been surprised at how pleasant it looked seven hundred thousand years ago. Hippos sunbathed on a sandbank out in midstream and, according to Qu, were getting troublesome lately—he’d had to set up a little temporal fence around the camp at night, so that any hippos trying to wander in among the tents found themselves back in the water with a headache... ...As Lu-Tze approached, a line of joyful, dancing Monks wove their way along a bamboo replica of a street, letting off firecrackers and banging gongs.''

* '''The destruction of [[Um]] and Lu-Tze stares down a mammoth. -58,000 UC'''

{{MM}}: ''“The usual way. One of our golems heard one singing. Imagine that. It’s been underground for sixty thousand years…”''

{{TOT}}: ''“And I know when he is,” said Lobsang. “Only sixty thousand years away. So…” Lu-Tze, when they found him, was looking calmly up at an enormous mammoth At the far end of its trunk, Lu-Tze was saying: “So…you’ve never heard of Rule One, then?”''

* '''Formal Golem becomes the common language of Golems -18,000 UC'''

{{MM}}: ''“I can speak formal Golem. Is this ancient enough for you?”... ...“The common language of golems for the last twenty thousand years,” said Adora Belle.''

* '''Early Ankh-Morpork is built with stone -8,000 UC'''

{{T!}}: ''Ankh-Morpork was built on Ankh-Morpork. Everyone knew that. They had been building with stone here ten thousand years ago. As the annual flooding of the Ankh brought more silt, so the city had risen on its wall until attics had become cellars''

* '''Latest re-founding of Ankh-Morpork -1282 UC'''

Turtle Recall: ''Initially, they dated from the founding of the city, but Ankh-Morpork has been burned, razed, rebuilt — lost and founded, as it were — many times, and '''various rulers with more pride than sense have started the numbering from 1 all over again''', usually from some vitally important event such as their accession to power.''

* '''The [[Battle of Koom Valley]] 1 UC'''

{{T!}}: ''Forward two thousand years. Would a cube last that long? Hell, they bob up in molten lava!... ...“It’s a two-thousand-year-old legend! Who knows who wanted what?”''

* '''Unseen University is founded by Alberto Malich 1 UC'''

Turtle Recall: ''"Unseen University... ...It was founded in what was then known as AM 1282 by Alberto Malich, during the closing days of the Ankh-Morpork Empire (This lasted from AM 1, the building of one of the first cities in what is now the Shades area, until shortly after the founding of UU)."''

* '''[[B'hrian Bloodaxe]] Crowned Low King of the dwarfs on the [[Scone of Stone]] 498 UC'''

{{T5E}}: ''“And he is crowned on the Scone of Stone and sits on it to give his judgments because all the Low Kings have done that ever since B’hrian Bloodaxe, fifteen hundred years ago. It…gives authority.”''

* '''King Murune begins his reign of Lancre 709 UC'''

Turtle Recall: ''Murune. A past King of LANCRE (709-745)''

* '''The king of Ankh builds a temple (now the royal bank) hoping for a god to show up to inhabit it. 1100 UC'''

{{MM}}: ''“This was the undercroft of the temple,” said Bent, leading the way. “Are you telling me this place doesn’t just look like a temple?” “It was built as a temple, yes, but never used as one.” “Really?” said Moist. “Which god?” “None, as it turned out. One of the kings of Ankh commanded it to be built about nine hundred years ago,”''

* '''The second expedition departs to XXXX from Ankh-Morpork. Approximately 1500 UC'''

Turtle Recall: ''It was believed that Xxxx has been the subject of at least two expeditions from Ankh-Morpork; the first, several thousand years ago, was led by a sourcerer and the second, some five hundred years before the present, was never heard of again.''

* '''Sir Gyles and Lady de Murforte starts construction of The de Murforte School for Gentlemen Assassins 1511 UC'''

The NEW Discworld Companion: ''The Guild as it exists today owes a great debt to its founders, Sir Gyles and Lady de Murforte... ...Work on the new school began in 1511..''

* '''The de Murforte School for Gentlemen Assassins was officially opened 27 August 1512 UC'''

The NEW Discworld Companion: ''The de Murforte School for Gentlemen Assassins was officially opened by King Cirone II on 27 August 1512''

* '''Vampire, Queen Grimnir the Impaler begins her reign of Lancre 1514 UC'''

Turtle Recall: ''Grimnir. Queen Grimnir the Impaler (1514-53, 1553-7, 1557-62, 1562-7, 1568-73). A vampire Queen of Lancre. The phrase ‘the Queen is dead, long live the Queen’ is particularly apposite in her case. [WS]''

* '''King Cirone II Establish the first formal post-network and appoints the first ‘Master of the Posts’ 1530 UC'''

Turtle Recall: ''In AM1530, King Cirone II established a formal network of messengers and horses along important routes and he appointed the first ‘Master of the Posts’ to administer the system and to ensure that it worked to maximum efficiency.''

* '''The [[Brotherhood of Infernal Zoth, the Undying Renderer]] wiped out by a suspiciously localised earthquake. Site purchased by the [[Fools' Guild]]. 1547 UC'''

Turtle Recall: ''Little is known about the origins of the building which was to become the Guild House. It features in some early records of Unseen University as ‘the Plague House’, and the last known occupants before the mysterious fire and highly localised earthquake in 1547 were apparently The Brotherhood of Infernal Zoth the Undying Renderer, a contemplative order.''

* '''The Ankh-Morpork City Watch is founded 1561 UC'''

Turtle Recall: ''The Ankh-Morpork City Watch was founded, in 1561, by King Veltrick I.''

* '''The Fools Guild is founded by Monsieur Jean-Paul 1567 UC'''

Turtle Recall: ''It was in fact Monsieur Jean-Paul Pune who founded the Guild in 1567, when he came to Ankh-Morpork from Quirm in search of people with a better sense of humour who didn’t keep trying to drown him.''

* '''The first City Watch badge is made 1572 UC'''

Turtle Recall: ''When Veltrick HI took the throne in 1572, he was approached by the city’s merchants and agreed to make a modest allowance for the continued running of the City Watch. It was he who commissioned the striking of the first Watch badge, a plain disc or shield of copper''

* '''The de Murforte School for Gentlemen Assassins has its status elevated to that of a Guild and renamed: "the Royal Guild of Assasssins" 1576 UC'''

The NEW Discworld Companion: ''In 1576, it was invited by the city’s elders to elevate its status to that of a Guild, giving it voting rights in the city’s Guild Council, It then changed its name to the Royal Guild of Assassins''

* '''The Ankh-Morpork Post Office building is opened 1635 UC'''

Turtle Recall: ''By AM1635, King Lorenzo I (father of Lorenzo the Kind) had decided that the general public could also use the King’s Letter Office of Ankh-Morpork and the Sto Plains.''

* '''Baron von Wendeltreppe-Stecken-pferd was inhumed by Croydon Minimus armed with a one-armed teddy bear. 1687 UC'''

The NEW Discworld Companion: ''One exhibit which usually exercises the minds of boys for many a long night is the one-armed teddy bear (Mr Wuggle) used by Croydon Minimus to inhume the Baron von Wendeltreppe-Stecken- pferd in 1687.''

* '''[[The Battle of Ankh-Morpork]] 1688 UC'''

''The Ankh-Morpork Civil war... ...this would have been 1688... ...The last civil war, and execution and revelation of the personal habits of lorenzo the kind in 1688, marked the final end of any kind of monarchy in the city. ran from 8.32 p.m., 3 Grune, 432 to 10.45 a.m., 4 Grune 432''

Turtle Recall: ''The Century of the Fruitbat was therefore the twentieth century. The Ankh-Morpork Civil War, which took place in 432 by the city count at the time, took place in AM 1688 by the more reliable University calendar''

* '''Gumler Vode is condemned for eternity to measure the length of endless street Approximately 1700 UC'''

Turtle Recall: ''Endless Street, Ghost of. Endless Street, Ankh-Morpork, is the name of the street running entirely around the city centre inside the city wall. It is said to be haunted by the ghost of one Gumler Vode, condemned for eternity to measure its length. Vode’s unfortunate sentence began some three hundred years ago.''

* '''The freehold of the main Assassins Guild premises are gambled away and passed seamlessly to Sir John Ramkin 1767 UC'''

The NEW Discworld Companion: ''Regrettably, in 1767, following a rash wager by the then head of the Guild, who believed that two pairs could beat any other hand, the freehold of the main Guild premises passed seam- lessly to Sir John ‘Mad Jack’ Ramkin, and has remained in the possession of the Ramkin family until recently, when it became part of the marriage gift of Lady Sybil RAMKIN to Sir Samuel VIMES, later His Grace the Duke of Ankh, with whom the Guild has a good working relationship.''

* '''Rascal, Methodia paints ‘The Battle of Koom Valley’ 1802 UC'''

Turtle Recall: Rascal, ''Methodia. Born, painted famous picture, thought he was a chicken, died. He’s believed to have painted around Discworld year 1802.''

* '''The [[Diet of Bugs]] 1880 UC'''

{{T5E}}: ''“No silver has been mined in Uberwald since the Diet of Bugs in AM1880, and the possession of the metal is technically illegal.”''

* '''The latest battle of Koom Valley is fought Approximately 1900 UC'''

{{T!}}: ''“About a hundred years old,” he said. “From the last big battle, a hundred years ago.''

==== 6.4 People ====

* '''-53 UC - Alberto Malich is born'''

Turtle Recall: ''Although in real years he is only about sixty-seven, he has been alive while two thousand years have passed on the Disc.''

* '''947 UC - Gladys is born'''

{{MM}}: ''“Er…how old are you, Gladys?” said Moist carefully. “One Thousand And Fifty-Four Years, Mr. Lipwig.”''

* '''1200 UC Approximately - Lu-Tze is born'''

Turtle Recall: ''Although he is generally acknowledged to be 800 years old, there are some who claim he is 6,000 years old,''

{{TOT}}: ''HE IS LU-TZE, A HISTORY MONK. EIGHT HUNDRED YEARS OLD. ... ...He had eight hundred years’ worth of experience in steering the thoughts of his superiors''

* '''? UC Rincewind'''

{{S}}: ''What? No! It says I’m a wizard, that’s what! Twenty years behind the staff,''

{{S}}: ''Examine Rincewind, as he peers around the sullen shelves. There are eight levels of wizardry on the Disc; after sixteen years Rincewind has failed to achieve even level one.''

==== 6.5 Not placeable as of now ====

* '''Banishment of [[Ipslore the Red]]'''

{{S}}: ''“We banished an Ipslore thirty years ago,” said Spelter''

* '''The throne of Ankh is abandoned with the death of the last line of the kings of Ankh.'''

{{S}}: ''The throne had been empty for more than two thousand years, since the death of the last of the line of the kings of Ankh.''

* The True Arte of Levitatione begins its occupation of the library rafters

{{S}}: ''the True Arte of Levitatione has spent the last one hundred and fifty years up in the rafters''

* '''TLF -30 years. The wizards start reading the mind of the Great A’Tuin'''

{{TLF}}: ''“There’s a bunch of wizards that have been reading it in shifts for thirty years,” said Rincewind. “All they’ve found out is that Great A’Tuin is looking forward to something.”''

* '''TCOM -5 years Tethis starts living on the Edge'''

{{TCOM}}: ''“I have lived here on the Edge for five years and I have not had the courage,” boomed Tethis''

* '''TCOM -5 years A giant Kraken is swept into the circumfence.'''

{{TCOM}}: ''Terton, lengthman of the 45th Length, hadn’t heard such a clashing since the night a giant kraken had been swept into the Fence five years ago.''

* '''TCOM -8 years Twoflower starts saving for his trip to Ankh-Morpork'''

{{TCOM}}: ''“So I decided to see for myself,” the little man was saying. “Eight years’ saving up, this has cost me. But worth every half-rhinu''

* '''TCOM -200 years Codice of Chimeria kills the last dragon.'''

{{TCOM}}: ''“Dragons don’t exist,” said Hrun flatly. “Codice of Chimeria killed the last one two hundred years ago. I don’t know what we’re seeing, but they aren’t dragons.”''

== Sourcery ==
Sourcery should be placed one year after ''The Light Fantastic'', as it's stated that the luggage "ate a spell book" last year. In the old timeline, [[Talk:Discworld Timeline#Sourcery|someone mentioned that]] this was not possible as that would require the assumption that Vetinari were patrician in ''The Colour of Magic''. I don't see why that is a problem, as ''Guards! Guards!'' makes it clear that it was Vetinari who legalised the Thieves Guild, a state which I believe was already the case in the very first book! Note I'm going through all the books in order now, and I'm currently up to ''Guards! Guards!'', so excuse my ignorance of any facts. [[User:Danochy|Danochy]] ([[User talk:Danochy|talk]]) 02:26, 2 December 2021 (UTC)

Ankh-Morpork Calendar

2021-11-15T05:00:26Z

Danochy:

One of the two main [[Discworld calendar|calendars]], starting at the foundation of [[Ankh-Morpork]]. An AM year has 800 days, which is one full year on [[Discworld]]. Because of the complicated way the sun orbits the Discworld, each season occurs twice in a full year. However pure it is to follow this, most people seem to prefer the [[University Calendar]], which is less pure, but more logical for everyday use.

== Events ==
* 1222 AM - [[Alberto Malich]] is born ({{M}})
* 1289 AM - Alberto Malich's apparent disappearance ({{M}})
:: Note: this event is said to have happened 2000 years before the events of {{M}}.

{{stub}}
[[Category:Discworld Timeline]]
[[de:Kalender (Ankh-Morpork)]]

Talk:Discworld Timeline

2021-11-15T04:46:19Z

Danochy: /* Pyramids(?) */

<div class="usermessage">All Threads older than one year have been archived [[Discworld Timeline/Archive 1]] If any user wishes to comment on these discussions please do so here. All new threads should be started here also.</div>

There is unlikely to be any addition to Lspace's original [http://www.lspace.org/books/timeline/dw-timeline.html Timeline], so we may now add new and missing dates (or argue with others), here.

Dates should only be added after an explanatory page has been created (i.e. no red dates). Do not simply copy the original here without verification in an article, there is no reason to duplicate it.

== new timeline ==

So is this definatly where the redone timeline will be? And also, could someone please take down the lspace.org timeline. --[[User:ArchchancellorJoe|ArchchancellorJoe]] 17:23, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
:This is where the wiki's timeline goes. I don't think there's any intention of removing the original from the L-Space Web. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] 18:18, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
::Why not? I thought it was agreed that it was wrong? --[[User:ArchchancellorJoe|ArchchancellorJoe]] 19:42, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
:Agreed by whom? I disagree with bits of it; other people disagree with other bits. How could we prove it's wrong? Anyway, you'd have to argue with the Cabal, or maybe Esmi: this is our area, others have theirs. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] 19:55, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

== {{NW}} issue ==

In {{MAA}} Vimes had been in the Watch 25 years. Would that not then require five years between {{MAA}} and {{NW}}? [[User:Solicitr|Solicitr]] 02:48, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

The DWTL and I make it four; perhaps a rounding error. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] 02:58, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

: But then- is the {{NW}} time-hole exactly thirty years, or is that just a 'round number'? If we know {{FOC}} to be in 1987 (one year before the Tercentenary), and {{G!G!}} two years before that (1985)- there at least we're on solid ground, with {{MAA}} roughly right between, i.e. 1986. Isn't that, at least, solid? [[User:Solicitr|Solicitr]] 03:10, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

[[Talk:1957 UC|My suggestion]] was thirty-two years; the rest is pretty well accepted and follows Orin Thomas's findings. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] 03:35, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

: That's good- it also cleans up the Susan Sto Helit problem- exactly 30 years doesn't allow any time between {{M}} and Susan's birth. [[User:Solicitr|Solicitr]] 04:05, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

Query, though- is there any basis besides Orin's bare assumption that {{J}} occurs a mere year after {{FOC}} or, really, that the whole chronology after {{FOC}} really has to be so jammed up? The only idea of the passgae of time in the later books, IIRC, is the fact that {{NW}} prertty much has to occur within 9 months or less of {T5E}- plainly the end of the previous year, since it's winter. But why does {{T5E}} have to be crammed into the same year as {{J}}? [[User:Solicitr|Solicitr]] 22:59, 7 March 2010 (UTC)
:I think Orin has the whole period of the Watch Series pretty well laid out with explanatory notes. I've written before about the odd compression of events, attributing it to the impossible demand on the History Monks. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] 01:28, 8 March 2010 (UTC)

:: Well, I've read Orin's notes, and I'm not entitrely convinced. And although the History Monks are a convenient catchall excuse for everything, they really should only be a last resort, when a real temporal impossibility crops up. I just don't see anything that ''necessitates'' stacking the sequence {{FOC}}-{{J}}-{{T5E}} so closely together.
:: What I'm playing with right now is taking Vetinari's graduation date of 1968 seriously, without postulating a decade-long Grand Sneer. It occurs to me that perhaps Pterry didn't choose that year any more arbitrarily than he did 1688- Roundworld 1968 was the year the barricades went up again in Paris and abortive 'revolutions' full of Reg Shoes and calls for steeply-discounted love happened all around the world, when two very major political assassinations took place, when Nixon replaced LBJ ("meet the new boss...") [[User:Solicitr|Solicitr]] 16:58, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

Crazy idea: suppose we assume ex hypothesi that the Patrician in {{M}} is actually ''Winder''- whom we know to have held the office for eleven years. This would place Mort one year before the Revolution, so let's assume it to be 1967. Susan could easily be born a reasonable three years later, i.e. ca. 1970, and puts {{NW}} ca. 1998, coming up on the 00-millennium. (Although the Time Hole can certainly be viewed as a millennial event, it's not a calendar bullseye since it takes place in May, not on Hogswatch.)[[User:Solicitr|Solicitr]] 17:32, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

:Urg. Won't work. Bear with me, I'm thinking out loud. Based on Vimes' dates of service we can't reasonably stretch the spread between {{MAA}} and {{NW}} beyond 8 years at the absolute max (if we assume that in {{MAA}} he means "24, nearly 25"- since it's in the summer sometime, whereas the impression {{NW}} gives is that young Sam first signed up in the winter- and if "30" in {{NW}} can be fudged up to 32).

:Yuck. Bloody Susan is 16 between 1985-87 maximum possible range; that is, born 1969-71 and we can't escape it. In {{TOT}} (ends the same day as all of {{NW}} "present") she is 20. Exactly 20 or about 20? [[User:Solicitr|Solicitr]] 22:14, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

No, I didn't think it would. I've been at it about three years and nothing dissuades me from 1957 (maybe +/-1) for the G.R. and centuries ending on the eights. Vetinari taking over the Tyranny straight out of school doesn't sound likely, either. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] 23:16, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

::HM! Well, whaddya know! {{TOT}}, unless I missed it, never mentions Susan's age at all- it is *not* pegged four years after {{SM}}. Well that relaxes things a bit. Guess I just assumerd the statement in the DWTL was based on text, rather than its own dating.

::Ok, let's review the bidding. Anchor point- {{FOC}} occurs in Grune 1987. Declared fact: Susan is 16 in {{SM}}, which necessarily follows {{G!G!}}- which happens "nearly two years" before {{FOC}}, or in 1985. All this just repeats Orin, and there's no wriggle-room at all. Now, {{MAA}} comes before {{SM}}, and 1986 is the sensible assumption, although as hard limits all we can say is between 1985-87. Still, '86 is close enough because the only matter of chronological import is that {{MAA}} is (I believe) ''roughly'' (not nec. exactly) 25 years after Vimes' enlistment and hence the Revolution (we have to assume that young Sam in {{NW}} has less than a year in the Watch, prob just a few months).

::From this we have to conclude that Susan was born ''circa'' 1970, and the Revolution was ''circa'' 1960. There's fudge room for both dates, but not too much. All of this of course just repeats Orin- but it's the wriggle room that matters here, especially if we want to "uncrowd" the late 80s. If we accept for the moment that {{MAA}} is in 1986, and that 25 and 30 are exact numbers, then {{TOT}}/{{NW}} are in 1991 and the Revolution in 1961. These numbers work for both Vimes and Susan. But how much "stretch" do we have in them? The later we can get away with placing {{TOT}}/{{NW}}, not only can we uncrowd, but we can minimize the rather large gap between {{NW}} (past) and Vetinari's graduation in 1968. [[User:Solicitr|Solicitr]] 00:01, 10 March 2010 (UTC)

"Vetinari taking over the Tyranny straight out of school doesn't sound likely, either". There we're trapped between hard dates. Lord V graduated school in 1968; he became Patrician by the time of Sourcery. We can't change that.[[User:Solicitr|Solicitr]] 00:11, 10 March 2010 (UTC)
:But even if we consider 1968 a "hard" date (and it's an isolated datum with no support itself) it doesn't mean he's ten years younger. He's still likely to have returned to graduate after some hiatus. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] 21:20, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

:: Maybe he had to re-take Concealment. [[User:Solicitr|Solicitr]] 22:18, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

:::Although published between {{TOT}} and {{NW}}, {{TT}} plainly cannot happen between them. {{TT}} opens on an "icy night" with "freezing fog" with slush and patches of ice, and so must be set in the winter before, since ''The Times'' is in existence by {{NW}}; but must take place after {{T5E}}, since the Watch has an Igor. Therefore {{TT}} must take place at the start of the year, tentatively 1989. [[User:Solicitr|Solicitr]] 02:20, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

==The {{ER}} question==

Why does the L-space timeline and derivatives postulate 14 years or so for the events of {{ER}}, not counting Esk's birth? I don't recall anything that suggests Granny and Esk spent more than a few months in A-M prior to the Dungeon Dimensions breakin. [[User:Solicitr|Solicitr]] 20:21, 13 March 2010 (UTC)
:No one seems to know. It's probably a typo/pasting error. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] 21:20, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

Ok. Which means therefore that we don't have any particular dates for it at all, save coming after {{TLF}} and before {{WS}}. Right? [[User:Solicitr|Solicitr]] 22:17, 13 March 2010 (UTC)
:There's no mention of the rest of the Lancre cast, so we assume it precedes ''Wyrd Sisters''. The coven's time seems to be accounted for afterward. I don't see any particular evidence for 1966, but there isn't much leeway. Anyway, Eskarina Smith is now in her late thirties! --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] 00:25, 14 March 2010 (UTC)

Unless of course she went back to Lancre, and 'saved' 15 years. [[User:Solicitr|Solicitr]] 00:45, 14 March 2010 (UTC)

== How long is a century? ==

Is it necessarily 100 years? Or is it an English word used to translate a Morporkian term for a period of ''about'' a hundred years? A-M uses the apparently ancient animal-name year cycle, like the Chinese and Maya and others; we don't know how many are in the cycle, and whether a 'century' represents one or multiple times around, although we can assume it's an even number of cycles.

I've played around with powers and multiples of 8, and counting in base-8, which seemed to make sense; but doing it that way doesn't produce a 'century' ending anywhere near ~1990, whether we start with UC 1 or AM 1 = UC -2564. But in further messing around I came up with this: The 40th 'century' after the founding of A-M hits in 1996- a reasonable year- if a 'century' is 114 UC years or 57 AM Great Years: '''57''', Pterry's favorite number.

One might suppose that an animal cycle of 57 years was part of the AM calendar, long predating the UC and numbered years. Perhaps (just to play a bit) the introduction of the UC four-season year involved splitting the 57 Great Years in two, so that (for example) the 8-season Year of the Serpent became the Year of the Notional Serpent and the Year of the Ephemeral Serpent.

Making 1996 the turn of the Fruitbat/Anchovy to me at least feels a lot more comfortable, and alleviates the severe crowding of what the existing timeline wants to back densely into 1988/89. [[User:Solicitr|Solicitr]] 04:27, 14 March 2010 (UTC)

You said that, but the history around 1988 is pretty well documented and seems to indicate 1989. How do you insert seven years? --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] 05:36, 14 March 2010 (UTC)

:Well, is it so documented? For the period following {{FOC}}, we can I think state firmly that the narrative order follows publication order (except {{TT}}); but IIRC the only indication we have for any particular period of time having passed between books is that {{NW}} falls in May following the winter of {{T5E}} (Sybil's pregnancy). We can also I think deduce that {{T!}} has to take place when Young Sam is ''at least'' 2 years old. But how much time passes between {{FOC}} and {{J}}? Between {{J}} and {{T5E}}? [[User:Solicitr|Solicitr]] 00:41, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

Young Sam is 14 months old to begin {{T!}}. (Story-reading scene, p 123 of 398 in H-C pb.) 
Sam Jr was born at the end of {{NW}}. Various comments suggest this was 1989.1 
Sybil was pregnant in {{TFE}} the previous autumn. What's the gestation period out of a 400-day year? 
{{J}} (1988) and 
{{FOC}} (1987) are internally dated by the Civil War. 
{{FOC}} states Carrot has been in A-M two years, placing 
{{MAA}} between 1987 and 
{{G!G!}} in 1985.

(1) I assume the Krullian/animal century changes after `88, having found no workable alternative. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] 23:38, 17 March 2010 (UTC)

:{{FOC}} is definitely set in 1987, agreed, and the previous Watch books approx 1 per year. But is {{J}} internally dated relative to the Tercentenary? If so, I've missed it.

:As for what follows, that is the sequence {{T5E}}-{{NW}}-{{T!}}, their dating depends on the end of the century, which is the whole problem.
[[User:Solicitr|Solicitr]] 00:26, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

So you'd like to insert several years between {{FOC}} and {{J}}, making Sam and Sybil noticeably older yet before having their first child? I'm pretty sure there's a mention of the anniversary in ''Feet'', but even without, a large gap sounds unlikely. Where's any evidence? --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] 01:09, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

==Bigger Table==
On the other hand, another way of lining these up might be to look at each calendar year (after things settle down) as covering one episode in each of the primary story-arcs (Watch, Witches, Wizards/Rincewind and Death/Susan)

On this line of thinking, we would get the table below:

{|border="1"
| '''Year'''
|
| '''Witches'''
| '''Wizards'''
| '''Death'''
| '''Watch'''
|
|'''Civic Progress'''
|-
|1985
|
|{{WA}}
|{{E}} (or subplots in {{MP}} and {{RM}})
|{{RM}}
|{{G!G!}}
|
|{{MP}}
|-
|1986
|
|{{LL}}
|{{IT}}
|{{SM}}
|{{MAA}}
|
|{{SM}}
|-
|1987
|
|''[[Maskerade]]''
| -
|{{H}} (turn of year)
|{{FOC}}
|
| -
|-
|1988
|
|{{CJ}}
|{{TLC}}
| -
|{{J}} {{T5E}} (turn of year),
|
| ({{T5E}})
|-
|1989
|
|diverted to Tiffany Aching series?
|diverted to ''Science'' series?
|{{TOT}} (May)
|{{NW}} (May)
|
|{{TT}} (start of year)
|-
|1990
|
|
|
|
|{{T!}} (fall)
|
|{{GP}}
|-
|1991
|
|
|{{UA}}
|
|
|
|{{MM}}
|-
|}

There is however a problem here with Susan's age. If she's 16 in {{SM}}, then we have to allow her at least another full school year (graduating at 17), plus another X months as a governess before Hogswatch. {{H}} thus could take place at the end of 1987; but a problem comes up in that by {{TOT}} she is in at least her ''second'' year as a teacher (other teachers are 'complaining' about her former students' precocity). That would mean we would have to allow her, at minimum, the 88-89 and (most of) the 89-90 school years before {{TOT}}.

:Why do we need to allow her another full school year? It's common to leave school at 16 in the UK with your basic (GCSE) qualifications in public schools. Given that she appears to be at a private school however it's quite possible she's been studying at a higher level. Having said that I'd always assumed that she was in her very late teens/early twenties during the events of {{H}}.--[[User:Megahurts|Megahurts]] 09:33, 26 October 2010 (CEST)

::Well, given the rules and discipline circumscribing Susan in {{SM}}, it certainly doesn't appear to be a uni enviironment at all, but a school; especially since UU is "Discworld's only institution of higher learning." At any rate, the book explicitly states that she's 16 years old. {{H}} is 'a few years' later: but that's the problem. --[[User:Solicitr|Solicitr]] 18:52, 15 November 2010 (CET)

Sybil's age? The text makes it clear that she's old enough to make childbearing a risky proposition; besides, we have no idea how old she really is anyway, save that she's older by some than Vimes. [[User:Solicitr|Solicitr]] 19:19, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

:The great thing about links is that you don't have to put everything on one page and I think the six-column table is far too busy and complex, especially when extended to three or four screens long. I'd rather keep it down to one line per year and you can link to the year article or a book article or some other highlight. 
:We can say definitely that Sybil is NOT older than Sam, from his statement that she'd looked sixteen when he met her adolescent self in {{NW}}. Sam was at least that old; I've had to age him to near eighteen after some recent comments. To speculate from that, she was a '''big''' girl and girls mature a little faster: she may have been fourteen. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] 22:51, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

OK, you're right about Sybil. That would put her in her mid-forties as of {{NW}} and Young Sam's birth, which seems about right. Now, what about the general proposition that, more-or-less, each year contains one 'installment' from each principal story-arc? It pretty much fits what you have- although given the matter of Susan's age I think it works better if the books from {{T5E}} onward were moved down a year, and also avoids piling {{T5E}} up with {{J}} a mere six months or less apart.

On another matter: According to {{MAA}} the Assassins' Guild offered a post-grad program, which could be the excuse we need to explain Veninari's 1968 diploma. [[User:Solicitr|Solicitr]] 18:28, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

==Ridcully==
I've tipped in a couple of dates which aren't quite those of the DWTL. In {{SM}} we learn that the Dean is 72 and Ridcully seven months younger. Since this is at the end of the year (1986) we can fudge Mustrum's birth year to 1915 and his departure at age 27 to 1943. I don't believe this causes a problem re Granny, since the numbers in {{LL}} are fairly approximate. I don't see a problem with their meeting in about 1933 or so, with Esme born ca. 1912. (Remember also that Granny "loses" fifteen years of age relative to Ridcully thanks to the Lancre Timeslip).--[[User:Solicitr|Solicitr]] 01:47, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

=={{TLC}}- where does it fit?==

Interesting problem, here, since this book explicitly takes place during (A-M) ''winter.'' When? Can hardly be that of {{T5E}}/{{TT}}, so it must be the previous winter. Is it then the winter before {{J}}, which happens in early summer? But if so, how did the Wizards sail all the way back from Fourecks in so short a time?

It seems that all the pieces fit best if {{TLC}} is set the winter ''following'' the Leshp War, and {T5E} the winter after that; in other words, moving that book and those that follow down a year. [[User:Solicitr|Solicitr]] 02:42, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

:More on this, following the turning seasons of the books during this period.
:Hogfather- the very end of the year
:Jingo- the end of the academic year, late spring/early summer
:The Last Continent- Winter (in Ankh-Morpork)
:Carpe Jugulum- late winter or very early spring
:The 5th Elephant- early winter
:The Truth- winter
:Thief of Time/Night Watch- May.

:The last four necessarily take place in one stretch of six months or thereabout. I suppose one could shove {{CJ}} into that same winter, just after {{TT}}- but it's hard to imagine the presence of Otto and the fairly numerous Black Ribboners as being effectively simultaneous with the Magpyrs; it doesn't really matter a lot since {{CJ}} has no cross-references outside Lancre and the Witches. {{TLC}} and {{T5E}}/{{TT}} '''cannot''' take place in the same winter- they have to be a year apart. All in all, I think it is unavoidable to conclude that these books cover a span of two-and-a-half years, not one-and-a-half; in other words
:{{H}} last day of 1987
:{{J}} approx June 1988
:{{TLC}} winter 1988-89
:{{CJ}} early spring 1989
:{{T5E}} late 1989
:{{TT}} early 1990
:{{TOT}}/{{NW}} May 1990.

:{{CJ}} might have to be taken as published out-of-order, if we are to accept that it occurs just before the end of the Century (assumed to be 1988). In that case {{CJ}} would slot in between {{H}} and {{J}}. On the other hand, let's not forget that the Lancre calendar is 15 years out of sync with the UU calendar. --[[User:Solicitr|Solicitr]] 15:37, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

==would this timeline work in with the current one?==

[[image:Timeline.PNG]]

==Ages of Characters==

A thought has occurred. This is by way of being momentous so I shall offer it up for discussion. We say "years" here and elsewhere, and then say e.g. "53 years old". BUT - if a year is 400 days (or even 800 for the ''full'' year), does that mean that "twenty years later" is actually (20 x 365 days = 7300 days) later '''or is it''' (20 x 400 days = 8000 days, which is 21 years and 11 months by Roundworld reckoning)?

Furthermore, if we say that Sam Vimes is "51" (based on difference between d.o.b. on his page and the date of {{MM}}), is he 51 as we understand it, or ((51 x 400)/365 = 55 years and 9 months) by our reckoning, with the concommitant further ageing and loss of youthful vigour - and the same for evey character we come across?

It's an intriguing point that has suddenly begun to bother me. --[[User:Knmatt|Knmatt]] 22:52, 24 October 2010 (CEST)
:It's bothered me for some time, `cause I don't know how long the day is, either. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] 00:47, 25 October 2010 (CEST)

::Who says that disc humans must live an equivalent lifetime as roundworld? There's a strong magical field there. So the length of a day and a year can be irrelevant --[[User:Fhh98|Fhh98]] 02:36, 25 October 2010 (CEST)

you could infer similarity in human longevity from what the canon books have to say about the relative ages of men and dwarves - I believe where this is discussed there is a remark to the extent that Dwarves may only be half the height of humans but live three times as long. And three hundred eyars is quoted as a typical long-lived dwarf age, thus implying that a century is the upeer limit for humans (regard Windle Poons and some of the more senior candidates for the professinoal attention of Death, Mort and Susan). So if 70-80 is the average for modern Britain or the USA, Discworld humans might tend to live a little longer? --[[Special:Contributions/194.70.181.1|194.70.181.1]] 10:01, 25 October 2010 (CEST) a.k.a. AgProv

: Yes but that is a relative measure. A day and a year arent defined in relation to roundworld. Therefore, a year that's 400 days long or 800 days long doesn't matter. --[[Special:Contributions/98.214.181.52|98.214.181.52]] 14:52, 25 October 2010 (CEST)

::Moving Pictures, on page 1, says "...the Discworld, world and mirror of worlds." I think this means that a lot of the basics are the same from our roundworld to the discworld. Day length would be the same, even if the hours are not. The 400 days per year would allow for the jammed up time for Vimes, although it may mean that Lady Sybil's gestation period is a bit longer than roundworld's women.--[[User:Docsooter|Docsooter]] 12:10, 17 July 2011 (CEST)

: If I'm not mistaken, during Wyrd Sisters Hewel and Vitoler are talking and Hewel says, roughly, half the height and ''twice'' the age so that the lives of humans and dwarfs average out the same. If the dwarves do live to be 300 years old than that would make the average human life 150 years. This extra length can be explained by the magical field. Though if the average life comes close to 150 years than why would a barbarian aged 87 be that impressive, he would be just past midlife.--[[User:Docsooter|Docsooter]] 12:10, 17 July 2011 (CEST)

:: As it was said by someone above, it was said somewhere dwarves live thrice as long, not twice (someone get a citation here, please. So, not only would a 87 year old barbarian be quite impressive if you see the age but...He's a BARBARIAN. They aren't expected to become older than maybe 40, 50 top.--[[User:LilMaibe|LilMaibe]] 18:52, 17 July 2011 (CEST)

::: I understand that someone had already stated that dwarves lived three times as long. I also understand that "three hundred [years] is quoted as a typical long-lived dwarf age," like that person also said. So if my recollections are correct (and I will look for the citation when my texts are available) than a long lived human life would be 150 years. Therefore if a "BARBARIAN" were 87 years old he would be 58% of a long lived life span. If a long lived human life span were 100 years than he would be an equivalent age of 58 years old. If you are saying that a barbarian were 40 or 50 years old out of a 100 year long lived life, than that would be kind of impressive. However, if my information is incorrect, and Dwarves do live to be three times the age of humans than an 87 year old barbarian would be extremely impressive considering that he would be about twice the expected age of an average barbarian. This argument hinges upon what the texts say on the comparative life spans of dwarves and humans.--[[User:Docsooter|Docsooter]] 21:50, 20 July 2011 (CEST)

:::: Well, whenever the topic of long life for humans came up, 100 was most often top, give or take a few years if one was a wizard(that managed to not be in anyone's way). Windle Poons is an outstanding example of old age. Another example, look at Ponder in The Last Continent: For a brief moment he becomes 104 and, after getting back to being 24 again feels as if he heard a (scythe-)blade being sharpened.--[[User:LilMaibe|LilMaibe]] 22:18, 20 July 2011 (CEST)

==Problems with the timeline==

Hi all. I’m gently constructing my own timeline and agree with the bulk of the main timeline page and many of the points here, however there are 4 problems in the current timeline that need addressing.

1. The Wyrd Sisters Prologue needs to start two years before the timeslip not one. The book starts with the death of Verence in the Autumn which is followed by a jump of a year to Hwel in AM the following Autumn (page 57). The land then awakes that winter (page 61). Nanny Ogg is arrested the following Spring and then the timeslip takes place. Since we can’t move the timeslip forwards, Wyrd Sisters must start one year earlier in 1967. As a result I’d push Equal Rites back a year (to 1965) to leave room between the two books.

2. The date of Sourcery has to be wrong. In The Truth, Wuffles is stated as being 16. His first appearance is in Sourcery where he is described as being “extremely elderly”. The average life-expectancy of a wire-haired terrier is 9 years, which really means Wuffles should be 7 or more (unless Vetinari has a magically aged dog). Even if you allow a slightly lower age, Sourcery cannot take place in 1974 as Wuffles would be no more than a puppy. Given the dating of The Truth, 1981 would be more acceptable.

This, however, causes a problem down the line. Rincewind in Sourcery has been a wizard for 16 years (at least its 16 years since he first tried to attain level one, which must predate The Colour of Magic). If Sourcery is 1981, The Colour of Magic is a year too early, which thoroughly wrecks everything. The least destructive solution would be to put The Truth at the end of 1989 and so move Sourcery back to 1980, placing it 16 years after The Colour of Magic which therefore takes place some months after Rincewind leaves UU.

3. Maskerade is explicitly set only 3 months after Magrat’s wedding in Lords and Ladies. That takes place around midsummer, so Maskerade must take place in 1986.

4. The date of the start of the Century of the Anchovy can’t be right. It’s still explicitly the Century of the Fruitbat in Carpe Jugulum, The Fifth Elephant and The Truth. The first clear mention of the Anchovy is in Going Postal although it could already be in place for Thief of Time onwards. I know this wrecks the ’88 Century change but that’s the way of it.

Actually if we could get rid of the 1688 problem everything would fall into place nicely; putting Winder’s fall in ’68 (as per Vetinari’s graduation) would place Thief of Time just on the Millennium. Damned if I can think of a sensible way of achieving it though. In the realm of non-sensible ways, one could note that, although Stoneface is noted as being Commander in 1688 and as killing the last King. It isn’t explicitly stated that they happen in the same year. One could, at a pinch, presume that he became Commander in 1688 but didn’t kill the king until 1697. An ugly solution but just about viable.

An alternative approach would be to put Carpe Jugulum, Fifth Elephant and The Truth in the same year as Jingo and The Last Continent. This means that it is snowing in Unseen University in late Summer but, given the magical nature of the place, I’m not certain that’s a problem. It’s certainly not explicitly stated as being winter, just that there’s snow.

Looking forward to a lively discussion! [[User:LordJuss|LordJuss]] 15:48, 14 September 2011 (CEST)

: Leaving 1,3 and 4 to the side... I dare say you answered your own question in 2. Granted, it's only a fan-theory, but some speculate that, upon restoring the city Coin also turned Wuffles into a puppy again to apologise for turning Vetinari into a lizard. (AND and EDIT) 'not stated as winter', eh? While yes, you musn't forget the basic rules that are there in the books: If weather not fitting the season happens it is mentioned. Therefore snow equals winter, on the campus and in the city.--[[User:LilMaibe|LilMaibe]] 11:37, 15 September 2011 (CEST)

:: On the first one, it's an interesting theory but there's no evidence and, more importantly, it doesn't help. Coin may well have made Wuffles a puppy again and this would explain how a dog who should live roughly 9 years manages 16. But, unless Vetinari also started counting his age from 0 again, he's still 16 in The Truth, so Sourcery cannot be in 1974. Regarding the second point. Yup, couldn't agree more. Unfortunately that means the 1988 millenium doesn't work and we're back to trying to find a way to disbelieve the 1688 reference. All suggestions gratefully accepted. [[User:LordJuss|LordJuss]] 13:26, 15 September 2011 (CEST)

::: This may sound stupid but...What if the one thing where Vetinari is absolutely uncreative is naming pets. Just like Leonard fails at naming his contraptions, Vetinari might have this one weakness that so far all his pets were Terriers named Wuffles.--[[User:LilMaibe|LilMaibe]] 15:04, 15 September 2011 (CEST)

:::: That's actually funny enough to be viable. But the point is, it doesn't matter. The position of Sourcery is pretty harmless and it can be moved to 1980 without causing problems anywhere else. That way we match the text and don't have to invoke oddities - no matter how amusing. [[User:LordJuss|LordJuss]] 15:19, 15 September 2011 (CEST)

== Pyramids(?) ==

The events of {{P}} do not show up anywhere in the timeline. This is important, especially as regards [[Mericet]]. Teatime mentioned that he had Mericet as a teacher, so knowing the time of ''Pyramids'' would be very useful in determining the old goat's age.

: It takes place in the [[Century of the Cobra]], although some people in the book think it's the [[Century of the Fruitbat]], which suggests to me that ''Pyramids'' might be some time after the Fruitbat? Time works strangely in [[Djelibeybi]] though... [[User:Danochy|Danochy]] ([[User talk:Danochy|talk]]) 04:46, 15 November 2021 (UTC)

== Sourcery ==

Upon re-reading Sourcery I stumbled about a few mentions of time: First, we, the readers, are reminded Rincewind's been a student at the UU for 16 years and achieved nothing when it comes to ranks. The same information was given in the first two books, what makes sense, if you take that students start at the age of 16 and that Rincewind's roundworld version is 33. Second, there's a mention of the Luggage having eaten a spellbook last year. This, while never said, is likely the Octavo. Third, Rincewind complains that he's been behind the staff for 20 years, which is, likely, rounding up from 16-17. All in all I think Sourcery is rather taking place one or two years after TLF and not 10. Thoughts? --[[User:LilMaibe|LilMaibe]] 14:54, 11 April 2012 (CEST)
:I'd rather think not, because if we stipulate that Vetinari was the Patrician a year after {{TLF}} our heads will explode. [[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] 05:15, 14 April 2012 (CEST)
::Well, the patrician in TLF was vetinari. written by a worse author. (Sir Terry's own words :) )--[[User:LilMaibe|LilMaibe]] 00:14, 15 April 2012 (CEST)

== Books later than ''Snuff''? ==

Where to place {{TSC}} and {{RS}} in relation to everything else? I was trying to work out, for purposes of fanfic, how old Princess Margaret Esemerelda Note Spelling of Lancre would be in a given year. My tenuous calculations mean that she'd need to be over sixteen for my purposes (honourable intent!) but I just need clarification.. the story I'm writing might take place a year or two after {{RS}}. [[User:AgProv|AgProv]] ([[User talk:AgProv|talk]]) 23:16, 21 February 2016 (UTC)
:For some reason, any reply I enter is rejected by the spam filter. I can't guess what's triggering it. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 00:57, 22 February 2016 (UTC)
:Trying again, I'd say Esmerelda was only about ten, but the timeline goes all over after {{T!}}. She's a year to two older than Young Sam, so near eight for {{SN}}. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 01:01, 22 February 2016 (UTC)