Discworld & Terry Pratchett Wiki - User contributions [en]

Talk:Geoffrey Swivel

2016-07-12T17:13:44Z

Onomatopoeia:

Re: breaking the sound barrier. "There was a distant ''boom''", but flying unprotected at 1200 Km/hr without being torn to shreds seems too fantastic for Discworld. I think it was mentioned before that 70 mi/hr was about tops for a broomstick, which is already a severe wind to hang on in. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 17:35, 6 January 2016 (UTC)

==Edit of 2 July==
I'm having some trouble finding justification for the accusation of sexism and the apparent elitism in the latest submission here.

See Tiffany's (and Nanny's) rather glowing assessment of Geoffrey on p.322 . Mrs Earwig then says that "he's no witch", as the Wizards would say Eskarina was no wizard, but she's found her own method and path and her art is just as good, if a little different. Geoffrey has no training at all, but he's acquired Granny's steading on sheer talent and will have to develop his unique style as well. Calm-weaving may be his specialty, as other Witches and Wizards have theirs, but it doesn't have to limit him.

Petulia Gristle is undeniably "good with pigs": so good that she won the Witch Trials by doing ''the Pig Trick'' '''without a pig'''. She can also bore an elf to death. They don't get to be Witches "on the sole qualification of being 'good with pigs'". That would be a farmer.

Who said Tiffany "wasn't meant to be a Witch"? Not Miss Tick, and it seems generally counter-intuitive. How is she not "willing to accommodate Geoffrey's aspirations"? --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 00:06, 3 July 2016 (UTC)

:Yeah... agreed with Old Dickens. Tiffany was indeed hesitant to call Geoffrey a "witch." However, that's not because she didn't recognize him as a witch; that's because she was controlling for other peoples' reactions to him. Tiffany didn't want to have a long argument with people laughing at the boy witch. ("Nah, witches can't be boys", they'd say, obfuscating the fact that Geoffrey was clearly qualified to do witching). So she called him a "calm weaver." Ta da -- no argument, since no one had ever heard of a "calm weaver" before. I think the scene in the Dwarf broom repair shop is where Tiffany first coins the name, and it seems clear from the context that she is testing other peoples' reactions to Gefforey, not questioning his competence. I've removed this section for now, but I'm certainly open for discussion. [[User:Moishe Rosenbaum|Moishe Rosenbaum]] ([[User talk:Moishe Rosenbaum|talk]]) 00:09, 6 July 2016 (UTC)

:: So Geoffrey can't call himself a witch because it would cause trouble with older witches who don't think there can be a male witch. Tiffany calls him a calm weaver to avoid an argument. Yet Eskarina is called a wizard. Why isn't she called a Magic Useress, so as to avoid damaging the delicate sensibilities of older wizards who object to a woman wizard? How many standards do I see here. I see one standard for Geoffrey and one standard for Eskarina. I see two standards. Almost as if there were originally one standard and it were doubled somehow. [[User:Onomatopoeia|Onomatopoeia]] ([[User talk:Onomatopoeia|talk]]) 17:13, 12 July 2016 (UTC)

Talk:Geoffrey Swivel

2016-07-12T17:13:10Z

Onomatopoeia:

Re: breaking the sound barrier. "There was a distant ''boom''", but flying unprotected at 1200 Km/hr without being torn to shreds seems too fantastic for Discworld. I think it was mentioned before that 70 mi/hr was about tops for a broomstick, which is already a severe wind to hang on in. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 17:35, 6 January 2016 (UTC)

==Edit of 2 July==
I'm having some trouble finding justification for the accusation of sexism and the apparent elitism in the latest submission here.

See Tiffany's (and Nanny's) rather glowing assessment of Geoffrey on p.322 . Mrs Earwig then says that "he's no witch", as the Wizards would say Eskarina was no wizard, but she's found her own method and path and her art is just as good, if a little different. Geoffrey has no training at all, but he's acquired Granny's steading on sheer talent and will have to develop his unique style as well. Calm-weaving may be his specialty, as other Witches and Wizards have theirs, but it doesn't have to limit him.

Petulia Gristle is undeniably "good with pigs": so good that she won the Witch Trials by doing ''the Pig Trick'' '''without a pig'''. She can also bore an elf to death. They don't get to be Witches "on the sole qualification of being 'good with pigs'". That would be a farmer.

Who said Tiffany "wasn't meant to be a Witch"? Not Miss Tick, and it seems generally counter-intuitive. How is she not "willing to accommodate Geoffrey's aspirations"? --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 00:06, 3 July 2016 (UTC)

:Yeah... agreed with Old Dickens. Tiffany was indeed hesitant to call Geoffrey a "witch." However, that's not because she didn't recognize him as a witch; that's because she was controlling for other peoples' reactions to him. Tiffany didn't want to have a long argument with people laughing at the boy witch. ("Nah, witches can't be boys", they'd say, obfuscating the fact that Geoffrey was clearly qualified to do witching). So she called him a "calm weaver." Ta da -- no argument, since no one had ever heard of a "calm weaver" before. I think the scene in the Dwarf broom repair shop is where Tiffany first coins the name, and it seems clear from the context that she is testing other peoples' reactions to Gefforey, not questioning his competence. I've removed this section for now, but I'm certainly open for discussion. [[User:Moishe Rosenbaum|Moishe Rosenbaum]] ([[User talk:Moishe Rosenbaum|talk]]) 00:09, 6 July 2016 (UTC)

:: So Geoffrey can't call himself a witch because it would cause trouble with older witches who don't think there can be a male witch. Tiffany calls him a calm weaver to avoid an argument. Yet Eskarina is called a wizard. Why isn't she a called Magic Useress, so as to avoid damaging the delicate sensibilities of older wizards who object to a woman wizard? How many standards do I see here. I see one standard for Geoffrey and one standard for Eskarina. I see two standards. Almost as if there were originally one standard and it were doubled somehow. [[User:Onomatopoeia|Onomatopoeia]] ([[User talk:Onomatopoeia|talk]]) 17:13, 12 July 2016 (UTC)

Geoffrey Swivel

2016-07-02T03:19:51Z

Onomatopoeia:

{{Character Data
|title= Geoffrey
|photo=
|name= Geoffrey Swivel
|age= not given; about 16
|race= Human
|occupation= Witch, sort of...and Lancrastian Ambassador
|appearance=
|residence= originally [[The Shires]], then [[Lancre]]
|death=
|parents= Lord Harold and Lady Swivel
|relatives= b. Harry, b. Hugh
|children=
|marital status= single
|books= {{TSC}}
|cameos=
}}

Given a little more time, there might have been more connection established between [[Eskarina Smith]], the [[Wizard]] born into the wrong sex, and '''Geoffrey Swivel''', a [[Witch]] born in the wrong sex and place.

Geoffrey becomes not-quite-a-Witch, capable of most of the same functions but relying on a sort of [[headology]] based on persuasion rather than [[Boffo]] and fear. He has a rather eldritch [[Mephistopheles|goat]] as a companion and protector rather than Esk's staff. (The concept of a {{wp|Familiar spirit|familiar}} hasn't been featured previously in the Discworld chronicles, unless you count [[Greebo]]'s occasional assistance.)

==Origin==
Geoffrey's father, Lord [[Harold Swivel]], has managed to revive a family fortune almost dissipated by his father and establish himself in a large country estate in [[The Shires]]. He has no respect for education but employs a [[Wiggall|tutor]] for his three sons at his wife's behest. Geoffrey, the youngest, is the only one to take an interest and reads prodigiously. When his father dismisses the tutor, he turns to [[McTavish]], an old family retainer in the stables, for education in practical and natural areas.

==Career==
Geoffrey's fondness for animals, starting with Mephistopheles and nurtured by McTavish, finally clashes with his father's values in a fox-hunting episode and he decides to leave home. He has read about Witches and seen them on broomsticks in the sky and decides that this is his calling. [[Narrative Causality]] draws him to [[Lancre]] and [[Granny Weatherwax]]'s cottage. Tiffany passes on Granny Weatherwax's broom to him, after the Dwarfs completely replace everything. He shows quite a facility for broomstick riding, even being able to break the sound barrier, which, on the Discworld, crowds lightspeed as well.

He arrives just in time to face a massive attack by the [[Elves]] on two fronts and he and Mephistopheles acquit themselves well. He has shown himself capable in the practical elements of Witchcraft and is able to relieve [[Tiffany Aching]] of the second steading in [[Bad Ass]] which has been imposed on her. He impresses King [[Verence II|Verence]] and Queen Magrat enough that they appoint him Royal Ambassador to the [[Sto Plains]] and he is empowered to return home and kick a little sand in his father's face. (Mephistopheles takes the opportunity to plant a kick in the other end.)

==Character==
Geoffrey's talent for "getting along" and cajoling people into sociability or out of violent behavior recalls [[Tomjon]]'s gift from Magrat and [[Carrot Ironfoundersson]]'s uncanny ability in peacekeeping.

Geoffrey's character exposes a rather significant double standard, not just as held by [[Tiffany Aching]], but in the Discworld series as a whole, namely that despite it being treated as a given that Eskarina can be a wizard despite being a woman, Tiffany outright refuses to acknowledge that Geoffrey is a witch despite being a man, going so far as to scoff at the idea that being "good with goats" is a valid example of witchery despite [[Petulia Gristle]] having become a witch on the sole qualification of being "good with pigs". Given that she herself wasn't meant to be a witch before she took her destiny into her own hands, one would think that Tiffany would be more willing to accommodate Geoffrey's aspirations, especially as he displays numerous qualifications for the job throughout '''{{TSC}}'''. And even though Tiffany eventually relents and allows Geoffrey to take a steading, she still chooses to make up a new title for him to use, rather than allow him to call himself a witch, despite it being a very important aspect of witchery in itself.

== ==
There is no mention of a relationship to [[Tuppence Swivel]]. If the very literary Tuppence were part of the family he would be considered a black sheep by Harold.

[[Category:Discworld characters]]
[[Category:Witches]]
[[Category:Tiffany Series characters]]