Talk:Lu-Tze

This is the 100th real article according to special:statistics. :) Jeltz 22:33, 13 Sep 2005 (CEST)

Yeah! --Jogibaer 22:31, 14 Sep 2005 (CEST)

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About his age, in Thief of Time it is said twice that Lu-Tze is 800 years old (p. 132 of US paperback, when the Abbot is sending the young operatives to Uberwald and Lu-Tze asks permission to take Lobsang to Ankh-Morpork) (p. 51 US paperback, after presentation of sweeper's robe and broom to Time/Lobsang, when Lobsang asks what small gift he can give Lu-Tze). Is there any change about his age in the books after that?

The 6000 years are taken from the Discworld Companion (2nd edition). I just checked with the 3rd edition where it states:

'Although he is generally acknowldeged to be 800 years old, there are some who claim he is 6000 years old, 
 because for History Monks time is a resource to manipulate rather than an amber in which they are imprisoned.'

So there seems to be an inconsistency somewhere. However, I don't know in which book it occurs. --Jogibaer 11:21, 1 November 2005 (CET)

Lu-Tze's Rank

Lu-Tze is not a history monk. He works in Oi Dong monastery, and he has all the abilities of a history monk, with the addition of being able to use the deadly art of Deja-Fu, but he was never initiated as a monk. He is a sweeper. His job is to sweep the floors of Oi Dong. The fact he knows so much about time manipulation is just a result of his sweeping the right rooms at the right time (during classes, for example).

That said, he still goes on History Monk errands, such as making sure history happens, but he is still only a sweeper.

The interesting (possible contradiction) here is that when the character of Lu-Tze first appears in Small Gods, (ref Corgi Paperback p.8), he is introduced thus:-

The 493rd Abbot... addressed Lu-Tze, one of his most senior monks.

He is still a History Monk on pp 376-377, at the end of Small Gods.

Here, Lu-Tze is a fully-fledged and acknowledged History Monk who while in the field adopts the guise of a humble sweeper. It is only in the later books, Thief of Time, Night Watch, that the reverse is emphasised: here, the story is the Lu-Tze never graduated as a monk nor was selected as one at all. What he has learnt has come from years of sweeping up, inobtrusively, in classrooms where the monks are trained.

Perhaps even though he is a sweeper he is treated by the abbot as a monk. He certainly is a sweeper but many of the monks who know him respect him as if he was a high ranking monk. --Confusion 03:31, 22 October 2011 (CEST)

She's how old?

Re:"As a young man...": is it really mentioned somewhere that Mrs. Cosmopolite is also 800 years old? ..Old Dickens 8:15 EST 20 Aug 2006

In the book The Way is described as something Lu-Tze has for a long time. I'd have to search the book for the exact story of him going to Mrs Cosmopilite though, but I think this could be an inconsistency. Mrs. C is definitely not 800 years old, she sounds like a middle-aged woman who is as common as muck. Not some secret ancient history nun of centuries old ;) --Sanity 00:02, 21 August 2006 (CEST)

Found it: "The first words read by the young Lu-Tze when he sought perplexity in the dark, teeming, rain-soaked city of Ankh-Morpork were: 'Rooms For Rent, Very Reasonable'. And he was glad of it." - Corgi paperback of ToT, page 40 at the top. --Sanity 00:55, 21 August 2006 (CEST)

Moving around in time is what the Sweeper does, of course. He could just as easily show up as his younger self. ..Old Dickens 10:25 EST 21 Aug 2006

He's not a wizard. He looks as he looks. He can only show up as a young Lu-Tze if he's really young, which suggests he is hardly trained (ToT suggests he did start training as a monk but never finished, moving on to becoming a sweeper). So he's definitely young, which shouldn't be possible. Unless Mrs. Cosmopilite lived hundreds of years ago, which she didn't because she is referenced in MP as well.

Actually, if Lu-Tze can move around in time, then why didn't he go back in time to stop the clock? --Sanity 17:08, 21 August 2006 (CEST)

Dunno, he went back to get Sam...Old Dickens 13:20 EST 21 Aug 2006

Google Groups discussions on this matter. It wasn't resolved then, too. --Sanity 17:30, 21 August 2006 (CEST)

History Monks cannot change the past. It's a law. Or something. He went back to get Sam so he could correct the fluxes in the space-time continuememememem. There might be a line of Mrs. Cosmopilites- it's a surname, it must have started somewhere- and the 'Way of Mrs. Cosmopilite' Mrs. Cosmopilite is different from the 'Moving Pictures' Mrs. Cosmopilite. To paraphrase a line from Maskerade: Who says there's only one Mrs. Cosmopilite?-- Stanley Howler 20:56, 9 May 2012 (CEST)

Even if there was another Mrs. Cosmopilite 800 years ago, there wouldn't have been a Merchant's Guild to publish the booklet that drew young Lu-Tze to Ankh-Morpork in the first place. More likely, the young Lu-Tze was actually born very recently, came to the city at some date after The Colour Of Magic, and began learning from Mrs. Cosmopilite at the same time as the earlier novels are taking place. He was then recruited by the History Monks, who performed the Closing of the Flower ritual, effectively erasing all record or memory of his youthful presence in the city. Realizing none of their current batch of trainers could properly shape his talents, the Abbot had him sent back 800 years to work with masters of an earlier era; since then, Lu-Tze has lived through the intervening eight centuries, and caught up with his original year of birth.

Another Lu-Tze sighting

Lu-Tze has a brief cameo in Going Postal, when Moist visits the temple of Offler in the wee hours. The nave (quoting from memory) was deserted except for Moist, the junior priest on duty, and a little old man vigorously sweeping the floor. Surely this is Lu-Tze again? --Eitheladar 05:50, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

See Going Postal Annotations, p.263. On the other hand, sextons are sweeping out churches all the time...--Old Dickens 15:49, 24 August 2008 (UTC)