Discworld & Pratchett Wiki:Mended Drum: Difference between revisions

Latest revision as of 18:25, 24 November 2024

This is a location to discuss non-content matters (what do we do with content disputes, vandalism, etc, what do we want to do with this wiki, and so on).

This is the page for current discussions.

AI content and fan project promotion

So we have a new contributor (hello DugBride if you’re reading this) who is adding AI-generated images to pages without images, and attributing them to their fan project, a Discworld “re-skin” of the board game Oath. Which means the time has come for us to have a policy about AI-generated content. As a writer, actor, teacher, podcaster and more, every facet of my life is currently being made worse or at best more complicated by diffusion model images and large language model text, so I’m not a fan. But I recognise that’s not necessarily a majority opinion. So: what do we think? I don’t think we want AI text here at all, and at a bare minimum I want art to be clearly attributed to the model that created it. I would prefer hand-drawn fan art for character and item art, and I confess I am not a fan of some of the images uploaded so far, but again I recognise that’s a preference. But I am also not in favour of the wiki being filled up with images that promote a fan project, even if it is one I’m interested in. (This is why I have limited mention of my own podcast here, and started my own wiki for the detail I wanted to share.) What do you folks think? -- Guybrush (talk) 22:48, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

I'm not a fan either, of course, and I would certainly ban AI-generated text, except how would you recognise it? Images are more difficult. What if the image were created in an old-fashioned (two years ago?) drawing program? What about photographs? I expect you know a lot more about the process than I; what if the AI is just used to smooth out an original drawing or color it, or...? Enforcement seems to be the hardest part. Other ideas, anyone? Old Dickens (talk) 23:37, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

I’m not proposing we get too draconian about it, but having an official policy (or as close to official as we get) is enough to get us started. If folks want to ignore the rules and do it anyway, we can address that if necessary. I would just like us to be clear about whether we want images created by a diffusion model - which is to say, a generative AI like MidJourney or Dall-E which takes a text prompt and then creates an image based on analysis of training images (many used without permission) and associated descriptions. If someone makes art themselves and includes some kind of computer assistance in their process, I am not that fussed, just as I don’t mind if someone has a chat with ChatGPT to get inspiration for the fanfic they then go on to write. But the kind of thing created just by prompting an algorithm seems rather against the fandom spirit of L-Space, to me; fandom involves community, and that means if you need art for a project, you talk to other fans and find fan artists who are willing to help. An example policy might be something like: “This wiki does not permit the use of content created wholly or primarily by generative AI systems, including large language and diffusion models for text or art. All text added should be the work of the contributor; any art uploaded should be done so only with permission, and attributed to the creator.” -- Guybrush (talk) 08:00, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

Hi there thanks for the welcome and open discussion I was aware both issues you have raised were contentious which is why I messaged Old Dickens direct before touching a page to get the go ahead to open this can of worms. I don't know how the back end of these things work so had to feel my way and have learned a fair bit in the past couple of days. Including where you talk about these things.
Here is where I am at...I would say if you don't like AI content then don't allow any AI content, if it is uploaded but then attributed to the model then I think you would be promoting it and will get a lot more. It has been surprisingly easy for me as a first time user to access and upload images seemingly without any gatekeeping, I am sure you already have safeguards against this but you may want to relook at those if you are hoping people will act in good faith. As for the project promotion, I agree it's a bit too much and if it's OK I will remove all references just leave the link in in my profile. Following the example set by Guybrush. I will of course not add any more pics but, it might be best if the current images stay while you make your decision, a picture tells a 1000 words even if those words are “we don't want these pictures” if then they are removed you may have to do it because although I can remove the page code, I have no idea how to delete uploaded files. Ironically I have been using both this reference and Guybrush’s podcast regularly without knowing they are connected for the last few months to get up to speed on Discworld, it took me all my life to read most of the books and so I have had to take shortcuts to work on the project references. I have a lot of respect for both sources and wouldn't want to cause any trouble.
If the images are unwelcome then I doubt I will have much to add as a contributor, there are a few unanswered questions when doing my research that I might be able to offer something on; Holy horns gesture? Guild Weathervanes? But you seem to have a lot covered and I have my own shed to be working in, maybe further down the road if you need some help administrating incoming imagery then I can help, although my field is Digital Imagery I am no artist and no expert in spotting deep fakes either. Finally I am thrilled you have both looked at my work in progress even if your not fans, I appreciate discerning feedback but happy to keep in my shed for now where I can choose how long Carrot has grown his hair. DugBride 11:44, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

Hey DugBride - I might not be a fan of the art, or even Oath, but your project is pretty amazing! And we do have a Fandom page where you could list it, at the very least. I want to thank you for engaging in this discussion in generous good faith, too. I’m not interested in having to police images really, but I think if we have a policy and find the right place to get it in front of users then that should be enough - I’m not expecting a torrent of diffusion model generated Discworld characters any time soon! — Guybrush (talk) 20:10, 14 December 2023 (UTC)

I'd go along with Guybrush's policy statement, above, now, where does it go? I wouldn't like a big banner of "don'ts" on the front page, but if it's in "About", or Help:Editing nobody will read it. Help:Editing is already noted at the top of every editing page, so I guess we could say ignorance of the law is no excuse. I have to defer to Guybrush on interpretation of what's too much AI; I don't suppose it's possible to credit the source in an AI image when there might be dozens. Old Dickens (talk) 18:44, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

I think on image upload I had to tick a box marked "this is my own work" If it had said this is my own work and not AI generated I would have halted at that point. Apologies for the multi edits; still learning. --DugBride (talk) 12:33, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

This is a pretty good idea. What if we create a policies page (it could also include guidelines on annotations etc) and then link to that from the upload page? We can probably change the language on the upload page itself, too. And to be honest ownership is part of the problem; at the moment the ownership of generated images is murky at best, and it’s certainly unclear who owns copyright. So that does seem like the right place to put it. — Guybrush (talk) 20:10, 14 December 2023 (UTC) On the subject of “how much AI is too much AI” I don’t think that’s a big problem; right now the thing we don’t want are wholly generated images - things created by diffusion models and similar tools, stuff like MidJourney or Dall-E, which create an image for you based on a text prompt. We don’t need to worry about folks using “AI” tools when making digital fan art (anything vaguely automated is being misleadingly lLabelled “AI” At the moment, even when many of those technologies already existed under other more sensible names). Perhaps we just need a clarifying clause on the “your own artwork” covering that it has to be yours, used with permission, allowed by copyright law and attributable to a person. I think it will also help to include in our art policy that as a fan project we want to showcase fan artists; you are welcome to use whatever you like to make art for yourself or or your own projects, but here we want to showcase human-drawn (etc) fan art. And as a longer term solution, perhaps I can do some call-outs in other fan spaces asking if folks have character and location fan art they’d be happy for us to use on the wiki for articles which lack images? — Guybrush (talk) 20:24, 14 December 2023 (UTC)

I second all that, except that the Upload file page is for images and doesn't relate to annotations; also it's a "special page" and Osiris would have to modify it. Help:editing is already linked from editing pages. Old Dickens (talk) 21:19, 14 December 2023 (UTC)

DugBride has removed his contributions. I'm of two minds on this; I have despised computer-generated pop music for many years now and I would prefer hand-made art or clever photographs, but we've begged for illustration for years and some of what we have isn't very good. I wish we could have more as useful as PetuliaGristle.jpg for example. Are these opposite and irreconcilable viewpoints? Old Dickens (talk) 04:17, 16 December 2023 (UTC)

Missed one, just removed Detritus from the page this morning, like I said I can't do much about the images I uploaded as it won't let me delete the copy on the server. I sympathise with your issue, there are significant characters and locations without graphical representation. The AI works for me as I have to produce 250 images for a very small audience on zero budget, and I am more keen on design and mechanics than artistry. I don't think its as vital a part of your offering. Its possible that in the new year I will take Guybrush's advise and reach out to some of the fan-artists to see if they want to help my project but only when I have something significant to demonstrate. I'll be happy to mention the gaps here that need filling, but it sounds like you have already been down that road. --DugBride (talk) 12:00, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

Hi, all, sorry I'm late to the discussion... boarding school at Hogswatch is a time sink. Anyway, y'all have said pretty much everything I would have, so all I'll do here is lend one more voice in support of Guybrush's suggestion, This wiki does not permit the use of content created wholly or primarily by generative AI systems, including large language and diffusion models for text or art. All text added should be the work of the contributor; any art uploaded should be done so only with permission, and attributed to the creator. I don't think we need to do much more in terms of advertising or enforcement, as long as we have something like this clearly stated somewhere. People don't necessarily read rules before editing. If we find someone using ChatGPT to make articles, we politely ask them to stop, and can point them to the statement if they wonder whether the polite ask has community consensus behind it. Moishe Rosenbaum (talk) 01:01, 21 December 2023 (UTC)

Have you watched The Holdovers? Old Dickens (talk) 02:30, 21 December 2023 (UTC)

I haven't, but I just read about the movie... boarding schools are (for the most part) very, very different places in 2023 than they were in 1970. Yet, the popular perception of class privilege and influence lives on in the zeitgeist. My school doesn't allow students to remain on campus over Christmas break. The ones for whom getting home would be prohibitive - usually just a few folks from overseas - generally stay with friends. We have a faculty member who helps coordinate such stays if students need help. My family hosted several of my son's friends, who were from China and Vietnam, on occasion.

Okay, in spring 2020 most of our international students remained on campus, and I was one of many faculty who volunteered to chaperone / entertain them. That's a very different story, with very different cultural context, to what I read about The Holdovers. <smile>

Atom

Clicking Atom in the sidebar bar produces the message: "This XML file does not appear to have any style information associated with it. The document tree is shown below.", followed by pages of XML gibberish. Not widely useful. Old Dickens (talk) 03:34, 26 December 2023 (UTC)

The Atom link is only visible in Recent Changes, your Watchlist or the history of a specific page, and generates an RSS feed (in Atom format) from entries in that list using XML which is (hypothetically) useful for other apps or websites to read. The main use case I’ve seen for that recently is a Discord bot which posts recent changes to a specific text channel, but generally speaking RSS has fallen from favour for most uses except podcasting. The Atom feed option is built in to MediaWiki so we can’t remove it by editing the sidebar menu, but probably there’s an option to disable it in the config file if we really want to. (FYI I don’t get the error you mentioned, though I did get a different one trying to view the feed for my Watchlist that suggests we might have an out of date extension somewhere?) — Guybrush (talk) 12:29, 26 December 2023 (UTC)

Spamagain

Suddenly, the SEOs are back! Old Dickens (talk) 16:34, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

Might be time to turn on new account approval? I run a plugin for that on my wiki, works pretty well. -- Guybrush (talk) 09:08, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

May I ask the name of the plugin you use? I wanted to switch to Turnstyle captcha but that isn't in the stable release of Mediawiki yet --Osiris (talk) 04:02, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

I use Confirm User Accounts. I get a little spam (I just checked and there were three junk requests) but they doesn’t slow down the wiki or result in any vandalism. It has a “Spam” response which doesn’t send an email to the requester. The main downsides are that you have to respond to each request individually, and it does throw a couple of error messages, though nothing serious. (I’m currently running MediaWiki 1.40.1 and Confirm User Accounts 224079f.) It might not be the best available! -- Guybrush (talk) 07:44, 14 June 2024 (UTC)

Twenty-five at once is getting back to the bad old days! Old Dickens (talk) 16:01, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
Forty-three so far today, almost all from the same source. I wonder what the "human not bot" filter does. Old Dickens (talk) 16:25, 14 August 2024 (UTC)

It's getting to be a bit much, and for extra annoyance, when I'm logged in I can't see any but the most recent deletions. If I log out, I can see that the spammers I've just deleted still show, but I can't do anything with them. Fortunately, they don't seem to be active but they still show in Recent changes. Can AI-assisted bots now defeat any captcha? , Old Dickens (talk) 02:27, 11 October 2024 (UTC)

The Chicago insurance agent is getting really tiresome. It can do fifteen at once all day and night, apparently automated. Old Dickens (talk) 18:13, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

Any word on user account approval, Osiris? -- Guybrush (talk) 05:37, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

The log in procedure seems to have changed and there's a pause in vandalism. Will it last? Old Dickens (talk) 05:41, 14 November 2024 (UTC)...no, they're back. Old Dickens (talk) 05:23, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Independent Wiki Federation?

I think we'd be a prime candidate for membership in the Independent Wiki Federation, which might be a nice way to attract some additional contributors and mods. They also have a very friendly Discord full of very knowledgeable folk who specialise in MediaWiki and might be able to help us solve our spam woes. What do we reckon? Doesn't cost us anything, and it would link us to a bigger community. -- Guybrush (talk) 07:29, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

I don't see why not, but I suppose Osiris would have to apply. (I wouldn't even know where to find the org-application channel.) Old Dickens (talk) 18:24, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

@@ Line 10: / Line 10: @@
 *[[Discworld & Pratchett Wiki:Mended Drum/Archive 5]]
 *[[Discworld & Pratchett Wiki:Mended Drum/Archive 6]]
+*[[Discworld & Pratchett Wiki:Mended Drum/Archive 7]]
+*[[Discworld & Pratchett Wiki:Mended Drum/Archive 8]]
 </div>
-==Annoying Scanners & Attackers==
+==AI content and fan project promotion==
-Wiki went down for a bit this morning due to a someone scanning or mirroring the site. CPU spiked to 100% and disk activity went from nil to 3GB/sec within 1 minute. Needless to say, the site crashed... --[[User:Osiris|Osiris]] ([[User talk:Osiris|talk]]) 15:18, 30 November 2018 (UTC)
+So we have a new contributor (hello [[User:DugBride|DugBride]] if you’re reading this) who is adding AI-generated images to pages without images, and attributing them to their fan project, [https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/3162903/oath-stories-discworld/page/1 a Discworld “re-skin” of the board game ''Oath'']. Which means the time has come for us to have a policy about AI-generated content. As a writer, actor, teacher, podcaster and more, every facet of my life is currently being made worse or at best more complicated by diffusion model images and large language model text, so I’m not a fan. But I recognise that’s not necessarily a majority opinion. So: what do we think? I don’t think we want AI text here at all, and at a bare minimum I want art to be clearly attributed to the model that created it. I would prefer hand-drawn fan art for character and item art, and I confess I am not a fan of some of the images uploaded so far, but again I recognise that’s a preference. But I am also not in favour of the wiki being filled up with images that promote a fan project, even if it is one I’m interested in. (This is why I have limited mention of my own podcast here, and started my own wiki for the detail I wanted to share.) What do you folks think? -- [[User:Guybrush|Guybrush]] ([[User talk:Guybrush|talk]]) 22:48, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
-:Maybe [https://discworld.fandom.com/wiki/Mightily_Oaks "Discworld Wiki"] decided to take it all at once? --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 17:49, 30 November 2018 (UTC)
+:I'm not a fan either, of course, and I would certainly ban AI-generated text, except how would you recognise it? Images are more difficult. What if the image were created in an old-fashioned (two years ago?) drawing program? What about photographs? I expect you know a lot more about the process than I; what if the AI is just used to smooth out an original drawing or color it, or...? Enforcement seems to be the hardest part. Other ideas, anyone? [[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 23:37, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
+I’m not proposing we get too draconian about it, but having an official policy (or as close to official as we get) is enough to get us started. If folks want to ignore the rules and do it anyway, we can address that if necessary. I would just like us to be clear about whether we want images created by a diffusion model - which is to say, a generative AI like MidJourney or Dall-E which takes a text prompt and then creates an image based on analysis of training images (many used without permission) and associated descriptions. If someone makes art themselves and includes some kind of computer assistance in their process, I am not that fussed, just as I don’t mind if someone has a chat with ChatGPT to get inspiration for the fanfic they then go on to write. But the kind of thing created just by prompting an algorithm seems rather against the fandom spirit of L-Space, to me; fandom involves community, and that means if you need art for a project, you talk to other fans and find fan artists who are willing to help. An example policy might be something like: “This wiki does not permit the use of content created wholly or primarily by generative AI systems, including large language and diffusion models for text or art. All text added should be the work of the contributor; any art uploaded should be done so only with permission, and attributed to the creator.” -- [[User:Guybrush|Guybrush]] ([[User talk:Guybrush|talk]]) 08:00, 9 December 2023 (UTC)
-==When We Forget==
+::Hi there thanks for the welcome and open discussion I was aware both issues you have raised were contentious which is why I messaged [[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] direct before touching a page to get the go ahead to open this can of worms. I don't know how the back end of these things work so had to feel my way and have learned a fair bit in the past couple of days. Including where you talk about these things.<br> Here is where I am at...I would say if you don't like AI content then don't allow any AI content, if it is uploaded but then attributed to the model then I think you would be promoting it and will get a lot more. It has been surprisingly easy for me as a first time user to access and upload images seemingly without any gatekeeping, I am sure you already have safeguards against this but you may want to relook at those if you are hoping people will act in good faith. As for the project promotion, I agree it's a bit too much and if it's OK I will remove all references just leave the link in in my profile. Following the example set by [[User:Guybrush|Guybrush]]. I will of course not add any more pics but, it might be best if the current images stay while you make your decision, a picture tells a 1000 words even if those words are “we don't want these pictures” if then they are removed you may have to do it because although I can remove the page code, I have no idea how to delete uploaded files. Ironically I have been using both this reference and [[User:Guybrush|Guybrush]]’s podcast regularly without knowing they are connected for the last few months to get up to speed on Discworld, it took me all my life to read most of the books and so I have had to take shortcuts to work on the project references. I have a lot of respect for both sources and wouldn't want to cause any trouble. <br> If the images are unwelcome then I doubt I will have much to add as a contributor, there are a few unanswered questions when doing my research that I might be able to offer something on; Holy horns gesture? Guild Weathervanes? But you seem to have a lot covered and I have my own shed to be working in, maybe further down the road if you need some help administrating incoming imagery then I can help, although my field is Digital Imagery I am no artist and no expert in spotting deep fakes either. Finally I am thrilled you have both looked at my work in progress even if your not fans, I appreciate discerning feedback but happy to keep in my shed for now where I can choose how long Carrot has grown his hair. [[User:DugBride|DugBride]] 11:44, 9 December 2023 (UTC)
-The whole wiki missed the anniversary of Mr Pratchett's death on Saturday. My excuse is that I'm old and daft; I suppose each has his own. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 02:51, 15 March 2016 (UTC)
+Hey DugBride - I might not be a fan of the art, or even ''Oath'', but your project is pretty amazing! And we do have a [[Fandom]] page where you could list it, at the very least. I want to thank you for engaging in this discussion in generous good faith, too. I’m not interested in having to police images really, but I think if we have a policy and find the right place to get it in front of users then that should be enough - I’m not expecting a torrent of diffusion model generated Discworld characters any time soon! — [[User:Guybrush|Guybrush]] ([[User talk:Guybrush|talk]]) 20:10, 14 December 2023 (UTC)
+:I'd go along with Guybrush's policy statement, above, now, where does it go? I wouldn't like a big banner of "don'ts" on the front page, but if it's in "About", or Help:Editing nobody will read it. Help:Editing is already noted at the top of every editing page, so I guess we could say ignorance of the law is no excuse. I have to defer to Guybrush on interpretation of what's too much AI; I don't suppose it's possible to credit the source in an AI image when there might be dozens.  [[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 18:44, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
+::I think on image upload I had to tick a box marked "this is my own work" If it had said this is my own work and not AI generated I would have halted at that point. Apologies for the multi edits; still learning. --[[User:DugBride|DugBride]] ([[User talk:DugBride|talk]]) 12:33, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
+This is a pretty good idea. What if we create a policies page (it could also include guidelines on annotations etc) and then link to that from the upload page? We can probably change the language on the upload page itself, too. And to be honest ownership is part of the problem; at the moment the ownership of generated images is murky at best, and it’s certainly unclear who owns copyright. So that does seem like the right place to put it. — [[User:Guybrush|Guybrush]] ([[User talk:Guybrush|talk]]) 20:10, 14 December 2023 (UTC)
+On the subject of “how much AI is too much AI” I don’t think that’s a big problem; right now the thing we don’t want are wholly generated images - things created by diffusion models and similar tools, stuff like MidJourney or Dall-E, which create an image for you based on a text prompt. We don’t need to worry about folks using “AI” tools when making digital fan art (anything vaguely automated is being misleadingly lLabelled “AI” At the moment, even when many of those technologies already existed under other more sensible names). Perhaps we just need a clarifying clause on the “your own artwork” covering that it has to be yours, used with permission, allowed by copyright law and attributable to a person. I think it will also help to include in our art policy that as a fan project we want to showcase fan artists; you are welcome to use whatever you like to make art for yourself or or your own projects, but here we want to showcase human-drawn (etc) fan art. And as a longer term solution, perhaps I can do some call-outs in other fan spaces asking if folks have character and location fan art they’d be happy for us to use on the wiki for articles which lack images? — [[User:Guybrush|Guybrush]] ([[User talk:Guybrush|talk]]) 20:24, 14 December 2023 (UTC)
+:I second all that, except that the '''Upload file''' page is for images and doesn't relate to annotations; also it's a "special page" and Osiris would have to modify it. '''Help:editing''' is already linked from editing pages.  [[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 21:19, 14 December 2023 (UTC)<BR>
+:[[User:DugBride|DugBride]] has removed his contributions. I'm of two minds on this; I have despised computer-generated pop music for many years now and I would prefer hand-made art or clever photographs, ''but'' we've begged for illustration for years and some of what we have isn't very good. I wish we could have more as useful as PetuliaGristle.jpg for example. Are these opposite and irreconcilable viewpoints?  [[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 04:17, 16 December 2023 (UTC)
+:: Missed one, just removed Detritus from the page this morning, like I said I can't do much about the images I uploaded as it won't let me delete the copy on the server. I sympathise with your issue, there are significant characters and locations without graphical representation. The AI works for me as I have to produce 250 images for a very small audience on zero budget, and I am more keen on design and mechanics than artistry. I don't think its as vital a part of your offering. Its possible that in the new year I will take [[User:Guybrush|Guybrush]]'s advise and reach out to some of the fan-artists to see if they want to help my project but only when I have something significant to demonstrate. I'll be happy to mention the gaps here that need filling, but it sounds like you have already been down that road. --[[User:DugBride|DugBride]] ([[User talk:DugBride|talk]]) 12:00, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
+:::Hi, all, sorry I'm late to the discussion... boarding school at Hogswatch is a time sink.  Anyway, y'all have said pretty much everything I would have, so all I'll do here is lend one more voice in support of Guybrush's suggestion, ''This wiki does not permit the use of content created wholly or primarily by generative AI systems, including large language and diffusion models for text or art. All text added should be the work of the contributor; any art uploaded should be done so only with permission, and attributed to the creator.''  I don't think we need to do much more in terms of advertising or enforcement, as long as we have something like this clearly stated somewhere.  People don't necessarily read rules before editing.  If we find someone using ChatGPT to make articles, we politely ask them to stop, and can point them to the statement if they wonder whether the polite ask has community consensus behind it. [[User:Moishe Rosenbaum|Moishe Rosenbaum]] ([[User talk:Moishe Rosenbaum|talk]]) 01:01, 21 December 2023 (UTC)
+:Have you watched ''The Holdovers''?  [[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 02:30, 21 December 2023 (UTC)
+::I haven't, but I just read about the movie... boarding schools are (for the most part) very, very different places in 2023 than they were in 1970.  Yet, the popular perception of class privilege and influence lives on in the zeitgeist.  My school doesn't allow students to remain on campus over Christmas break.  The ones for whom getting home would be prohibitive - usually just a few folks from overseas - generally stay with friends. We have a faculty member who helps coordinate such stays if students need help.  My family hosted several of my son's friends, who were from China and Vietnam, on occasion.
-==Spam filter again==
+::Okay, in spring 2020 most of our international students remained on campus, and I was one of many faculty who volunteered to chaperone / entertain them.  That's a very different story, with very different cultural context, to what I read about The Holdovers. <smile>
-Now I'm prevented from editing the Main page because of the supposed content "101,502,138,396" (without the commas), which I don't see in the page nor does the the browser's "find" function. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 03:38, 29 April 2016 (UTC)
-[[Category:Wiki Data|Discworld & Pratchett Wiki:Mended Drum]]
+==Atom==
+Clicking '''Atom''' in the sidebar bar produces the message: "This XML file does not appear to have any style information associated with it. The document tree is shown below.", followed by pages of XML gibberish. Not widely useful. [[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 03:34, 26 December 2023 (UTC)
+:The Atom link is only visible in Recent Changes, your Watchlist or the history of a specific page, and generates an RSS feed (in [[wikipedia:Atom (web standard)|Atom format]]) from entries in that list using XML which is (hypothetically) useful for other apps or websites to read. The main use case I’ve seen for that recently is a Discord bot which posts recent changes to a specific text channel, but generally speaking RSS has fallen from favour for most uses except podcasting. The Atom feed option is built in to MediaWiki so we can’t remove it by [[mediawiki:Sidebar|editing the sidebar menu]], but probably there’s an option to disable it in the config file if we really want to. (FYI I don’t get the error you mentioned, though I did get a different one trying to view the feed for my Watchlist that suggests we might have an out of date extension somewhere?) — [[User:Guybrush|Guybrush]] ([[User talk:Guybrush|talk]]) 12:29, 26 December 2023 (UTC)
-==Question==
+==Spamagain==
-Depending on usage, I spend ~$40 USD per month hosting this site. That cost has fluctuated as usage has gone up or down over the years. For example, Terry's passage forced a major resource increase for about a week tripling costs that month. Right now the site is sitting on an AWS T1/medium server which hosts both the database and website.
+Suddenly, the SEOs are back! [[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 16:34, 14 March 2024 (UTC)
+:Might be time to turn on new account approval? I run a plugin for that on my wiki, works pretty well. -- [[User:Guybrush|Guybrush]] ([[User talk:Guybrush|talk]]) 09:08, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
+::May I ask the name of the plugin you use? I wanted to switch to Turnstyle captcha but that isn't in the stable release of Mediawiki yet --[[User:Osiris|Osiris]] ([[User talk:Osiris|talk]]) 04:02, 13 June 2024 (UTC)
+:I use [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:ConfirmAccount Confirm User Accounts]. I get a little spam (I just checked and there were three junk requests) but they doesn’t slow down the wiki or result in any vandalism. It has a “Spam” response which doesn’t send an email to the requester. The main downsides are that you have to respond to each request individually, and it does throw a couple of error messages, though nothing serious. (I’m currently running MediaWiki 1.40.1 and Confirm User Accounts 224079f.) It might not be the best available! -- [[User:Guybrush|Guybrush]] ([[User talk:Guybrush|talk]]) 07:44, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
+Twenty-five at once is getting back to the bad old days! [[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 16:01, 1 August 2024 (UTC)<BR>
+Forty-three so far today, almost all from the same source. I wonder what the "human not bot" filter does.  [[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 16:25, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
-Originally, I had this site setup pretty slick. It sat on a single webserver using a separate Amazon RDS database server and depending on the volume of requests the site spun more instances up as necessary to scale with traffic. I stopped that because using a database on another server doubled the cost and the wife and I were going though a lean stretch.
+It's getting to be a bit much, and for extra annoyance, when I'm logged in I can't see any but the most recent deletions. If I log out, I can see that the spammers I've just deleted still show, but I can't do anything with them. Fortunately, they don't seem to be active but they still show in Recent changes. Can AI-assisted bots now defeat any captcha? ,  [[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 02:27, 11 October 2024 (UTC)
-I'd like to get back to that setup. It's more robust and I don't have to worry about much maintenance. But we're back in that lean time. So my question to the rest of you is would you object to a small paypal donate button being placed on the site to help defray the costs? Donate or not as you see fit. Thoughts? --[[User:Osiris|Osiris]] ([[User talk:Osiris|talk]]) 01:31, 30 July 2016 (UTC)
+The Chicago insurance agent is getting really tiresome. It can do fifteen at once all day and night, apparently automated. [[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 18:13, 4 November 2024 (UTC)
-:I'm up for it, since you say advertising revenue can't be had. I've had near ten years of free entertainment; I don't know how generous the reading public might be. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 03:36, 30 July 2016 (UTC)
-:Sounds good, but we'd need to make sure any donate button was clearly enough displayed that any reader could see it, but not so obnoxiously placed as to be annoying. --[[User:AnnieBudgie|AnnieBudgie]] ([[User talk:AnnieBudgie|talk]]) 09:57, 30 July 2016 (UTC)
-Go ahead! I'll check the piggybank. [[User:AgProv|AgProv]] ([[User talk:AgProv|talk]]) 11:43, 30 July 2016 (UTC)
+:Any word on user account approval, [[User:Osiris|Osiris]]? -- [[User:Guybrush|Guybrush]] ([[User talk:Guybrush|talk]]) 05:37, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
-:No complaints here.  Thanks for hosting the site.  If I ever do get my Pratchett course running -- not gonna happen anytime soon, I'm in charge of our journalism ''and'' physics programs now -- I'll make a donation part of my course budget.[[User:Moishe Rosenbaum|Moishe Rosenbaum]] ([[User talk:Moishe Rosenbaum|talk]]) 11:47, 30 July 2016 (UTC)
-Got it up! Checkout the sidebar. --[[User:Osiris|Osiris]] ([[User talk:Osiris|talk]]) 23:18, 4 August 2016 (UTC)
+The log in procedure seems to have changed and there's a pause in vandalism. Will it last?  [[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 05:41, 14 November 2024 (UTC)...no, they're back. [[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 05:23, 16 November 2024 (UTC)
-:So, how's fundraising going after a couple of months? Has the reading public contributed the first dime?  --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 02:33, 7 October 2016 (UTC)
-==Featured Article==
+== Independent Wiki Federation? ==
-It seems to be ages since a Featured Article was nominated as an exemplar of everything that's right about this site.  Can I suggest [[Book:Guards! Guards!|Guards! Guards!]] as a candidate? for one thing, it seems to be a rare "completed" book page with no red links leading to empty pages!
+I think we'd be a prime candidate for membership in the [https://indiewikifederation.org/ Independent Wiki Federation], which might be a nice way to attract some additional contributors and mods. They also have a very friendly Discord full of very knowledgeable folk who specialise in MediaWiki and might be able to help us solve our spam woes. What do we reckon? Doesn't cost us anything, and it would link us to a bigger community. -- [[User:Guybrush|Guybrush]] ([[User talk:Guybrush|talk]]) 07:29, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
-:...but that's not the stated objective of the Featured Article. It's a request for improvement, not a commendation. The last thing good articles need is attention from bloat fans and graffiti artists.<BR>
+:I don't see why not, but I suppose [[User:Osiris|Osiris]] would have to apply. (I wouldn't even know where to find the org-application channel.)  [[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 18:24, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
-:Since no one ever pays any attention to it anyway, should we change the heading to suggest an exemplar instead? That seems useful and in line with Wikipedia's version, but we'd want to change it a lot more often. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 15:49, 3 August 2016 (UTC)
-==BAN HAMMER==
-I don't know who you are Mr. "5.9.62.136" but you won't even see this since you've been banned from the server.
-I finally got the time to dig around and look into the systems overall stability. Found out >90% of the traffic is from the same IP in Berlin. One ban hammer later, and things are running smoothly now. --[[User:Osiris|Osiris]] ([[User talk:Osiris|talk]]) 03:21, 19 December 2016 (UTC)
-:Yay! Best part of being a god is getting to smite the evildoer. (Hmmm, [[User:Death|Death's]] in Berlin, could he...?}  --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 03:58, 19 December 2016 (UTC)
-::Doubtful, it resolves to static.136.62.9.5.clients.your-server.de . Do you know the address of his site? I can crosscheck it. --[[User:Osiris|Osiris]] ([[User talk:Osiris|talk]]) 15:19, 19 December 2016 (UTC)
-:Just wondering if He and Binky could pay the annoyance a salutary visit; sorry...The Diskwiki's address is at the de: link on the Main Page, of course. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 15:48, 19 December 2016 (UTC)
-::So I tried to downsize the webserver and we started crashing again. Seriously, this thing gets scanned constantly. I don't mind googlebot or bingbot but AhrefsBot and SemrushBot have got to go. --[[User:Osiris|Osiris]] ([[User talk:Osiris|talk]]) 05:26, 21 December 2016 (UTC)
-:I suppose there's no wiki attachment to discourage them? I thought anyone could come up with a new IP address pretty quickly. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 17:07, 21 December 2016 (UTC)
-::Updated the [http://wiki.lspace.org/robots.txt robots.txt] file to ban them. But their documentation states it may take up to 2 weeks before they will respect it. In the meantime, I tweaked the webserver config. When one of them hits the server, they get a 403 Forbidden message. CPU & Bandwidth usage dropped like a rock. For the last 6 hours, this server has been running just fine on a micro sized system at 1/4 the cost of the medium sized one it had to be on before. --[[User:Osiris|Osiris]] ([[User talk:Osiris|talk]]) 20:18, 21 December 2016 (UTC)
-::[[File:2016-12-21 14 20 20-Apache ModStatus PerfStats Sensor Details PRTG Network Monitor (PRTG).png]]
-:::And we've been stable for a week now! --[[User:Osiris|Osiris]] ([[User talk:Osiris|talk]]) 16:15, 29 December 2016 (UTC)
-==Encryption==
-FYI: I've installed an SSL certificate from the EFF.org provider (LetsEncypt). You can now access this site securely via [https://wiki.lspace.org https://wiki.lspace.org]. You may get a certificate error because not all providers recognize LetsEncrypt by default --[[User:Osiris|Osiris]] ([[User talk:Osiris|talk]]) 20:35, 24 January 2017 (UTC)
-:Works for me, once I remember my password. (Russian hackers are everywhere!) --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 21:00, 24 January 2017 (UTC)
-::in a couple weeks, once i'm sure this is properly setup and stable, i'll force everyone over to the secure side. --[[User:Osiris|Osiris]] ([[User talk:Osiris|talk]]) 21:33, 24 January 2017 (UTC)
-==Harder Spam Filter Problem==
-We've patched "'''prĭnter'''" before, but you can't do it in a link. This is cruel to the [[Guild of Engravers and Prĭnters]] and pages like {{TT}}, but I don't see a solution.  --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 16:40, 14 May 2017 (UTC)
-:That's a shame; I'll try this as a workaround for the problem: [[Engravers' Guild|Guild of Engravers and Prínters]] --[[User:Jagra|Jagra]] ([[User talk:Jagra|talk]]) 18:19, 14 May 2017 (UTC)
-Ah, I missed that one. Handy that it had an alternative already. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 19:43, 14 May 2017 (UTC)
-==Markup for spacing?==
-We don't seem to have Wikipedia's "Pad" or "Spaces" templates. Does anyone have a neater way of leaving a space than a string of &Nbsp;?<BR>
-Strangely, nowiki doesn't work on the real form of that. See<nowiki>&nbsp;</nowiki>source.<BR>Added [[Template:Pad]].  --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 15:22, 10 July 2017 (UTC)
-==Thumbnail errors==
-Just in the past month, we have this error message for new images (including ''File:Sliderule.jpg'' although it's linked and working): <BR>
-'''Error creating thumbnail: /bin/bash: /usr/bin/convert: No such file or directory Error code: 127''' <BR>
-What's that for? --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 15:22, 10 July 2017 (UTC)<BR>
-This continues to be a problem; [[User:AgProv|AgProv]] just ran into it. Image files since 8 Jun can't be inserted as we've been used to doing. See [[Special:ListFiles]].  --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 15:10, 27 July 2017 (UTC) {{Pad|2em}}Syntax copied directly from Mediawiki Help:Images doesn't work on the newer uploads; it produces the error message above. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 17:08, 27 July 2017 (UTC)
---I'll get to it. Wife's 9 months pregnant so I've got a ton of distractions at the moment. --[[User:Osiris|Osiris]] ([[User talk:Osiris|talk]]) 01:48, 29 July 2017 (UTC)
-----This should be fixed. --[[User:Osiris|Osiris]] ([[User talk:Osiris|talk]]) 20:59, 29 July 2017 (UTC)
-:It was, but it's back, just in the last couple of weeks.  --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 15:16, 10 October 2017 (UTC)
-:Now upload works, but '''Delete''' doesn't.  --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 04:06, 15 October 2017 (UTC)
-::Deletion of what? images? files? pages? Can you walk me through the steps to recreate the issue? --[[User:Osiris|Osiris]] ([[User talk:Osiris|talk]]) 04:10, 15 October 2017 (UTC)
-:'''Delete''' image. go to the file list and try to delete the most recent (marked "test"). '''Error deleting file: Could not create directory "mwstore://local-backend/local-deleted/p/i/g".'''  --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 16:23, 15 October 2017 (UTC)
-:<S>And...uploads work now but still can't create a thumbnail</S> (see [[User talk:Jagra]]).   --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 21:11, 15 October 2017 (UTC)
-:Thumbnails - check. Delete - check. Book and Character templates still a mess. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 03:10, 16 October 2017 (UTC)
-==Vandalism==
-[[Misuser:MASS VANDALISM]] wasn't kidding. I wonder if '''Move''' should require higher permission. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 16:07, 11 July 2017 (UTC)<BR>
-''Persistent'' bugger, too. I hope something can be done (preferably causing a lingering, painful death). --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 15:23, 13 July 2017 (UTC)<BR>
-...and he's back again. I got him at the first page this time but it's getting tiresome. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 17:23, 15 July 2017 (UTC)
-Yea I'm gonna have to do an update. --[[User:Osiris|Osiris]] ([[User talk:Osiris|talk]]) 05:13, 17 July 2017 (UTC)
-:Well, that didn't work. [[User:Slashkamr]] is highly suspect but hasn't done anything yet.  --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 15:49, 19 July 2017 (UTC)
-==Something seems to be broken...==
-....if you try to register with an e-mail address:
-<nowiki>[59181f6c] /mediawiki/index.php?title=Special:UserLogin&action=submitlogin&type=signup&returnto=Discworld+%26+Terry+Pratchett+Wiki:About Exception from line 304 of /var/www/html/wiki.osiris-web.com/public_html/mediawiki/includes/UserMailer.php: PEAR mail package is not installed
-Backtrace:
-#0 /var/www/html/wiki.osiris-web.com/public_html/mediawiki/includes/User.php(3885): UserMailer::send(array, MailAddress, string, string, NULL)
- #1 /var/www/html/wiki.osiris-web.com/public_html/mediawiki/includes/User.php(3862): User->sendMail(string, string)
- #2 /var/www/html/wiki.osiris-web.com/public_html/mediawiki/includes/specials/SpecialUserlogin.php(314): User->sendConfirmationMail()
- #3 /var/www/html/wiki.osiris-web.com/public_html/mediawiki/includes/specials/SpecialUserlogin.php(219): LoginForm->addNewAccount()
- #4 /var/www/html/wiki.osiris-web.com/public_html/mediawiki/includes/specialpage/SpecialPage.php(379): LoginForm->execute(NULL)
- #5 /var/www/html/wiki.osiris-web.com/public_html/mediawiki/includes/specialpage/SpecialPageFactory.php(503): SpecialPage->run(NULL)
- #6 /var/www/html/wiki.osiris-web.com/public_html/mediawiki/includes/Wiki.php(285): SpecialPageFactory::executePath(Title, RequestContext)
- #7 /var/www/html/wiki.osiris-web.com/public_html/mediawiki/includes/Wiki.php(588): MediaWiki->performRequest()
- #8 /var/www/html/wiki.osiris-web.com/public_html/mediawiki/includes/Wiki.php(447): MediaWiki->main()
- #9 /var/www/html/wiki.osiris-web.com/public_html/mediawiki/index.php(46): MediaWiki->run()
- #10 {main}</nowiki>
-Might be putting a few folks off joining! [[User:Indulgence|Indulgence]] ([[User talk:Indulgence|talk]]) 23:20, 11 October 2017 (UTC)
-:Yep. I don't get quite the same error message, but "PEAR mail package is not installed" seems to be a problem. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 04:50, 12 October 2017 (UTC)
-::An OS update broke part of the wiki. That's okay it made me site down and upgrade the wiki anyway. Sadly, the upgrade broke the lspace skin. I'll be working over the next few days to fix that. --[[User:Osiris|Osiris]] ([[User talk:Osiris|talk]]) 03:42, 15 October 2017 (UTC)
-==Outage==
-So the wiki was down all day today, I knew about it this morning but wasn't able to work on this until I got home tonight. I had the wiki's database server in the wrong pricing tier and it blew through the budget for the billing cycle so things shut down. I've got things straightened out now though so everything is in the proper place at the proper price. --[[User:Osiris|Osiris]] ([[User talk:Osiris|talk]]) 03:02, 31 October 2017 (UTC)
-== Morag's fate ==
-She's a buzzard owned by Nac Mac Feegle, especially by Hamish, although in "Monstrous Regiment" she's owned by  Corporal [[Buggy Swires]]. However, in she's still with Nac Mac Feegle in "The Shepherd's Crown". What's her fate then? That's pretty important to me.
---[[User:Ves|Ves]] ([[User talk:Ves|talk]]) 15:43, 28 March 2018 (UTC)
-:The obvious answer is: nobody knows. The next point is that this is not the place for content discussion, so I'm copying it to [[Talk:Book:The Shepherd's Crown]]. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 23:40, 28 March 2018 (UTC)
-==Spam filter...again==
-Somebody noticed that the spam filter doesn't work on the page titles. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 23:04, 15 May 2018 (UTC)
-==Citations==
-Has anyone looked at stuff like [[wikipedia:Template:Cite book]] and [[wikipedia:Template:Cite web]] and thought about converting them over to here? I looked at them and they are extremely bloated and over-complicated with code-spam on Wikiped, and in fact I saw that someone else already tried to make [[:Template:Cite web]] years ago in an aborted attempt, it doesn't work and no one is using it, so I tried to mark it for deletion ( but there is no proper category or template for that either :) )
-I looked in the history of Wikipedia's versions to find the old-school simple template versions of them without all the pages of code-spam but the 2008 version can't be used here because it triggers the spam filter <sub>("Spam protection filter - The text you wanted to save was blocked by the spam filter. This is probably caused by a link to a blacklisted external site. The following text is what triggered our spam filter: display: n0ne")</sub> ( I HAD TO EDIT THIS OUT OF THIS PAGE MESSAGE EVEN :) )
-I then copied their 2006 version of <nowiki>{{Cite book}}</nowiki> but this doesn't seem to work on [[Book:Discworld's Assassins' Guild Diary 2000]] and I see the <pre><ref></ref></pre> tags visible on the page because I guess those aren't added to the mediawiki version Lspace has or something? :(
-I think if these were added however possible it'd add a lot to pages, to be able to easily see where stuff is sourced from
-[[wikipedia:Template:Webarchive]] is also really good because most websites aren't around a few years later ([[wikipedia:Link rot|Link rot]]) --[[User:Rise Up Against the Ribbon|Rise Up Against the Ribbon]] ([[User talk:Rise Up Against the Ribbon|talk]]) 12:12, 3 August 2018 (UTC)
-==Time for an upgrade?==
-Is it time to upgrade to the latest version of the wiki software? Also, how about requiring all new accounts, and I really mean new ones, to have a valid email address specified.--{{User talk:Myrtonos/sig}}
-:Please, no more "upgrades"! We haven't recovered from 2017. As for requiring email addresses, we want to encourage new contributors, not threaten them with spam.  --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 17:02, 7 February 2019 (UTC)
-::Note that nearly all internet forums do require email addresses.--{{User:Myrtonos/Sig}} 02:41, 8 February 2019 (UTC)
-:::An upgrade will be coming. To many security holes not to do so... Just not sure when. --[[User:Osiris|Osiris]] ([[User talk:Osiris|talk]]) 03:08, 10 February 2019 (UTC)
-==Emporium images==
-The [[Discworld Emporium]] will allow use of their published material with the acknowledgement "© Discworld Emporium". Thanks to [[User:Discworld Emporium|Discworld Emporium]]  --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 04:25, 26 July 2019 (UTC)
-==Miner sign up issue==
-when signing up i noticed a mishandled ampersand it displayed as &amp; on screen on the screen that you enter your sign up details on (unsigned comment by [[User:Feldegast|Feldegast]] 22 Jun 2020)
-:How odd. I just noted (see my user page) that that problem had disappeared after some years. I can't guess why you have it now. Also, please add new entries to the bottom of the page (and sign your posts).  --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 03:27, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
-==Well, that hurts==
-Changing the backend of architecture had a hiccup and I had to restore from my previous backup. We've all new changes since the 23rd :( --[[User:Osiris|Osiris]] ([[User talk:Osiris|talk]]) 18:12, 7 July 2021 (UTC)
-:Back up again faster than expected; now about the previous problem... Is there yet hope of recovering the Discworld & Terry Pratchett namespace (or the missing images)? I have the Mended Drum archives, but I don't know what's to be done with the rest of the missing pieces.  [[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 21:48, 9 July 2021 (UTC)
-::I restored the Mended Drum archives. What other pages are you looking for? --[[User:Osiris|Osiris]] ([[User talk:Osiris|talk]]) 18:57, 10 July 2021 (UTC)
-:The portals on the Main Page, mainly (the About page doesn't even have the link now); there may be more I haven't seen yet. --[[User:Old Dickens|Old Dickens]] ([[User talk:Old Dickens|talk]]) 19:56, 10 July 2021 (UTC)
-::I think everything is back. At least all of the ones I can find in the database are restored. Can you give me an example page with a missing image? I'll tackle those next. --[[User:Osiris|Osiris]] ([[User talk:Osiris|talk]]) 21:12, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

Discworld & Pratchett Wiki:Mended Drum: Difference between revisions

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