Talk:Reverse Annotations

Sorry to be annoying, but I really don't think the thing about Brian from Family Guy is a reverse annotation. The idea of an animal endowed with intelligence falling victim to baser instincts (with, as the scrolls say, hilarious results) is more like one of those joke archetypes that sort of floats around and pops up every now and again. I'm gonna show some embarassing roots here, but Jessie and James would throw balls of yarn at Meowth to distract him in the anime Pokemon (and I quite doubt the writers drew much inspiration from Terry). Nor do I think FG's Death and Terry's Death have anything more in common than being Grim Reaper figures in a humourous world. (unsigned comment by BasementOfTheMansion, 16 Aug 2007)

Hmm.. point taken but the incidental detail of Gaspode's "You bastard" set against Brian Griffin's "You bitch!" does tend to suggest that somebody on Family Guy's scriptwriting committee is familiar with Pratchett... also, the Death of Family Guy lives in a modest home and has a positively banal home life with his extended Death family...

I do agree that to make an annotation REALLY stick, I will need to look for more and more parellels and clear, specific, references to Pratchettania in episodes of F.G.

For instance, Death has recently appeared in an episode of The Simpsons in the full hooded, cowled and scythe-carrying skeletal version. Even though the Death of Springfield ticks at least some of the boxes, he failed to convince as an annotation of any sort for two reasons.

i) There was absolutely nothing to link him specifically with the Discworld Death. No Binky, no Death-of-Rats, no homage dialogue, nothing specific;

ii) In fact, where we are told Death's eyesockets normally glow blue except when he is annoyed, the Death of Springfield had glowing red eyes all through. He was also notified of the next candidate for the Duty not by receipt of their lifetimer, but by an illuminated scroll on which the name of the soon-to-be-deceased was written.

Conclusion: the Death of Springfield is, alas, just another generic Death.

Watch this space!--AgProv 12:37, 17 August 2007 (CEST)

"'Fusculus' may come from a Latin root meaning "to confuse, to bamboozle" - confirmation anyone?" To darken, actually, but close enough. Fusco. See, for instance, "obfuscate." (unsigned comment by 208.101.178.28, 10 May 2009)

The idea of the alcoholic detective rehabilitated by the wealthy socialite goes back at least another half-century to The Thin Man, as I note in the header of my user page. Nick Charles didn't give up drinking, of course, and Nora matched him Martini for Martini. --Old Dickens 21:39, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

Cartoons?

It says a lot for me and the Internet that I'm coming accross more and more web-cartoon fantasy series that pay occassional and explicit homage to Pratchett, either in dialogue, characterisation, settings or tribute-plagiarised dialogue points.

All tis is getting so prolific - and ultimately slight - that I wonder if there's any real point in going into details here, save that, for instance, David Rennick's "Legend of Bill" may be found here, "Brat-Halla" here, and "Blooming Faeries!" here... all good funny laugh-out-loud ideas, btw. --AgProv 04:24, 28 December 2010 (CET)

As the author of Bloomin' Faeries! and someone who's never read a book of Terry Pratchett, I'm very flattered by the reference and comparison, but I'm also compelled to ask where my material intersects with that of Pratchett. --jayceeknight

Having just had a quick shufti, I'm at a loss, too...maybe just the mention of fairies? --Old Dickens 02:09, 17 August 2011 (CEST)

What, never read Pratchett? I've just been moved to go back and re-read the full story arc of Bloomin' Faeries (always a pleasure, Jaycee) and look for those elements that put me in mind of TP... let's see. Faeries/Elves as prone to putting glamour and enchantment on people just because they can and for their own amusement; a subversion of the conventions of fantasy; capricious royalty, morally suspect wizards, thick but hearty Heroes, a magical people with a basic sense of humour.... the sort of stuff TP covers in the first half-dozen or so Discworld books. There are undertones of the Wyrmberg business in the interplay between the Princess Heather, her two Hero suitors and her brat-prince brother, althugh this is all completely coincidental. Although I agree Shakespeare uses similar referents such as Bottom the Ass, referring to the Prince's trusty war-mount which can speak English after magical intervention. And the bashful talking tree... (bringing us back to Wyrd Sisters and Lords and Ladies again). But I agree there are no specific shout-outs in this cartoon that can be taken as homage elements to episodes in the Pratchett canon... there's also a lot less overt sex in the Discworld, too. Let's say a nicely done cartoon serial in similar vein and one which is well worth referencing in its own right? And read some Terry... not that you're stuck for ideas, by any means, but I think you'll like it! Mucho regards --AgProv 23:47, 17 August 2011 (CEST)

And here's an idea: a Webcomics section of "Reading Suggestions" that points readers to some most excellent fantasy comic strips, especially the ones playing the genre for humour and laughs. I propose Jaycee's as the first, but with a caveat about the adult humour content. --AgProv 23:54, 17 August 2011 (CEST)

I think the idea of a Webcomics section is an excellent idea that wouldn't be to hard to set up; the only problem I see in it is that there are many webcomics that have mature themes in them; should all comics be allowed or should there be limits? Either way some ground rules would have made on what should be allowed and how it should be identifed--Zdm 00:09, 18 August 2011 (CEST)

Yrsa

Sigurðardóttir, apparently. I suspect an Icelandic writer (and civil engineer!) can read the original Pratchetts. --Old Dickens 01:31, 6 April 2011 (CEST)

Joseph Wambaughs recently released "Hollywood Hills" contain a character named Raleigh S. Dibble, a caterer (whose food actually is edible), having business ventures that tends to become Wahoona shaped, but really isn't a criminal. Somewhat rodent-looking, too. Combine with a host of LAPD officers who would not be out of place in the AMCW (except for the leadership of the AMCW being somewhat better), and you see a clearcut case of a literary morphogenetic field.

I'm not sure about the Cabinet of Curiousities-these can be found in many museums. A strong coffee isn't particularly notable on the Discworld is it? The Igors is probably the most Discworld, and even then it could come from Hammer Horror. Marmosetpower 20:17, 8 November 2011 (CET)

Big Bang

Coming from East Texas, Sheldon Cooper's scientific achievements pale in comparison to his learning to talk like that. (East Texas also gave us Janis Joplin and other less-fundamentalist icons.) --Old Dickens (talk) 23:51, 14 June 2014 (UTC)

I'd have thought his improved taxonomy came from sleeping with the biologist. --Old Dickens (talk) 18:13, 3 March 2016 (UTC)

Now, certainly! But then? AgProv (talk) 20:38, 5 March 2016 (UTC)

Sharpe

I did some checking, and Harper's 7-barreller apparently first appears in Sharpe's Company published in 1982. I therefore consider it unlikely that it's a reference to the Piecemaker, which makes its first appearance in Men at Arms, published eleven years later. Daibhid C (talk) 11:37, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

"Off Their Rockers"

Currently watching the latest candid camera/practical joke show on ITV ("Off Their Rockers"), in which unlikely groups of the British population perpetrate practical jokes on unsuspecting members of the public. Tonight, disabled and "other" people are the jokesters. Just watched a very nicely set up prank where a dwarf woman is seen walking down the street with a stepladder. She politely informs the mark that she's locked herself out of her house, but as seen an open window that she can let herself in through. would he mind holding the ladder steady while she gets in? with an explanatory remark that "it might not seem very high to you, but it is to me", the three-foot six woman scrambles in through a ground-floor window, Her assistant politely waits for her, and then the burglar alarm goes off. She then scrambles back out through the window, holding a DVD player. She thanks him for waiting for her and holding the ladder, then runs for it...

A dwarf with a stepladder. Hmmm. A bit tenuous for the main page, but an idea very worth sharing here! AgProv (talk) 20:50, 1 June 2015 (UTC)

Time for some weeding?

A lot of these "reverse annotations" really boil down to "these two things are similar"; as some of the previous discussions touch on, a lot of them are almost certainly just different expressions of an established or common trope, joke or archetype, rather than one thing referencing another. (Indeed, we even have an article about it: "fishing from the same stream".) Since TV Tropes, All the Tropes and probably other sites already do a much better job of that - including with many examples from the Discworld - can we weed some of these out? Or at least categorise these into ones which seem likely, given specific references and/or corroborating evidence, and ones which aren't? -- Guybrush (talk) 05:20, 16 December 2022 (UTC)

I have long been in favor of weeding annotations (and slashing and burning). See comments above. Distinguishing between tropes and reverse (or forward) annotations is a good start. --Old Dickens (talk) 17:01, 16 December 2022 (UTC) This seems like such a rich mine of fishing from the same stream that I don't know where to start. AgProv certainly went overboard with Fusco... --Old Dickens (talk) 01:08, 17 December 2022 (UTC)

I've made a start! I'll come back periodically. I will probably also add some actual ones; a good place to start finding them is the TV Tropes "Referenced By" page for Discworld. Those are all legit references, and there are quite a few we don't have. -- Guybrush (talk) 07:27, 17 December 2022 (UTC)

Other Fools' Guild

The Alan Gordon stories may come from another source but they don't predate Wyrd Sisters (1988). --Old Dickens (talk) 04:33, 8 October 2023 (UTC)

They don’t…but then they’d need not to if they’re to qualify as a reverse annotation. But this entry now cites the author saying it isn’t a Pratchett reference. Do we need or want entries which just lay out why something doesn’t belong in this list? I’m a bit mystified with this one. — Guybrush (talk) 11:34, 13 October 2023 (UTC)