Talk:Book:Carpe Jugulum/Annotations

Deleted comment and discussion:-

Corgi PB (British) p. 279: Magrat Garlick and Nanny Ogg are escaping into Überwald with Princess Esmerelda. Magrat is being gloomy about their prospects for survival, as they are entering ever more deeply into vampire country. The dialogue, in the hijacked vampires' coach, runs:

And it could be worse said Nanny.

How?

Well...there could be snakes in here with us

Could this be a nod to the plot of the film Snakes on a Plane?

____________

Snakes on a Plane released 2006. Carpe Jugulum published 1998. Terry's very clever, not prescient. --Old Dickens 19:56, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Whoops... red face, didn't check respective release dates. But the film aside, I wonder if the concept of "snakes on a plane" has been around for some time, as a metaphor for the worst possible thing happening in the worst possible place, of being trapped with one's fears? All the makers of the film needed to do was to take a frightening thought that was already in the public domain and flesh it out with a plot... (Q: how to prove the phrase was there before the film?)--AgProv 20:11, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

www.urbandictionary notes an early sighting of the phrase in early 2005 (predating the film by a year) and suggests it was already in wide use before the film to denote a situation where the worst that can possibly happen is happening... "combining three of mankind's greatest and most potent fears: of flying in aircraft, of serpents, and of being trapped in a restricted space/being buried alive". Interesting: wonder if it can be attributed back further in time as a phrase?--AgProv 22:46, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

And Snopes.com records variations on a theme of the urban legend of the snake(s) in the car (or train!), which bites the driver/passenger, or otherwise causes disproportionate terror and damage in a closed confined space with no opportunity to escape. Therefore a routine journey becomes an occassion of terror and crawling dread, giving the urban myth its force and power. These are dated back to 1988 or earlier...[1]

I was curious as to why Nanny's very specific choice of words seemed to evoke a film that, as Old Dickens pointed out, wasn't to be released for another eight years. But how simple, when you realise what's happening: TP is evoking an urban myth which carries some force and power behind it. Enough force and power, in fact, for the film-makers to consider the same urban myth some years later, and think Hey, if we update this as "Snakes on a Plane, then we've got a blockbuster horror thriller!

We could have our annotation after all - to the urban myth, and not the film! --AgProv 22:56, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

In the first Indy film, Raiders of the Lost Ark, the good Doctor Jones finds a bloody big snake in the front cockpit of the plane he escapes from the swarming Amazonian indians - and their blowpipes - in. Not hugely useful, but there. --Knmatt 10:06, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks!

The other point occuring to me is that having picked up on one homage to a vampire film I know quite well (Nicolas Roeg's The Hunger), Carpe Jugulum must be well stuffed with allusions and visual imagery drawn from things like the classic Hammer Horror movies. I have a vague idea, for instance, that the scene where the Countess turns herself into green vapour so as to get through the locked door and confront Magrat and the baby is a direct lift from a Hammer horror, but I couldn't say which one.

So there's a rich seam here for horror film buffs to mine! --AgProv 14:15, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Vampirism as "pyramid marketing"

At one moment, Agnes asks Vlad wheter vampirism is a "pyramid selling system". Therefore, two questions: -should this even be included (allusion to economic theory) -which page in English edition it was (sorry, I don't own English version)--83.6.252.24 18:38, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

I would say yes - look up "pyramid schemes" on Wikipedia [2] as this particular fraud is very germane here - appplied to vampires, it addresses one of the logical objections to their being any in the world, as if every time a vampire feeds it makes a vampire of its victim, the same exponnential logic applies - you start with one vampire, or one family of vampires, and very soon you get more vampires than thare are in the world's population to begin with - and no prey species are left...--AgProv 13:47, 27 June 2011 (CEST)

Allusion to film Two Mules For Sister Sara

I also have a vague memory of watching a spaghetti western called something like "A mule for Sister Sarah", in which an ill-asorted couple are forced on a journey together, to escape from, and ultimately turn the tables on, the baddies who have done harm to "Sister Sarah".

The long-suffering male half leads her, riding the mule, through some truly inhospitable country (in bad weather?) , and there's something about a fort or castle going up in flames in a very big explosion. Is Terry alluding to this film when Oats and Granny escape by night ?--AgProv 00:06, 25 June 2011 (CEST)

It would fit TP's well-used trick of inversion: the pious (but feisty) churchman conveying the crusty (female) vampire-slayer. --Old Dickens 00:29, 25 June 2011 (CEST)

Here it is:- [3]--AgProv 13:47, 27 June 2011 (CEST)

Blackadder on the disc?

At one point a character (Nanny?) says "I'm fed up with you smarming at me smarmily as if you were Mister Smarm!" - a tribute to the Tv character Blackadder or a reference to said series? --AgProv 01:00, 11 July 2011 (CEST)